Category: Americas, World Affairs Topics: Georgia (U.s. State) Views: 4991
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American Muslims call raids "Fishing Expedition"
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), a Washington-based Islamic advocacy group, today said raids Wednesday on a number of Islamic institutions and homes in Virginia and Georgia were a "fishing expedition" that will only serve to intimidate law-abiding Muslim citizens.
In a statement issued at a packed Capitol Hill news conference, where representatives of some 25 local, national and international media outlets attended, CAIR's Governmental Affairs Director, Jason Erb said:
"The Muslim community is deeply concerned about what appears to be a fishing expedition by federal authorities using McCarthy-like tactics in a search for evidence of wrongdoing that does not exist."
"Unfortunately, investigators are well aware that in the current climate of fear and prejudice, few people will ask the tough questions about why these respected individuals and groups were targeted. Vague and unsubstantiated references to 'links' or 'ties' to infamous names and organizations should not be a substitute for credible evidence."
"As in past incidents targeting American Muslim institutions, no one is being given their day in court to confront accusers or refute allegations. Where then does one go to retrieve a reputation damaged by an irresponsible and out-of-control investigation?"
"All Americans have a justifiable desire to feel secure in this time of international crisis. But security need not be gained by destroying the civil liberties and standards of due process that we all hold dear."
Groups represented at or endorsing today's news conference included CAIR, American Muslim Council, Islamic Circle of North America, Islamic Institute, Islamic Society of North America, Muslim Alliance in North America, and Muslim American Society.
In addition, a statement was issued by the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC). It stated that MPAC is gravely concerned over law enforcement raids of American Muslim homes and institutions that took place yesterday, March 20, 2002, in the greater Washington D.C. area and Georgia.
According to media reports, 150 law enforcement officers from agencies including Customs, Secret Service, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, FBI, Immigration and Naturalization Service, and the U.S. Postal Service served 14 search warrants in N. Virginia and one in Georgia.
The same day the Attorney General announced that he would engage in interviews of foreigners in this country based exclusively on the fact that they are Arab and Muslim, Federal law enforcement agents engage in a large-scale raid of not only American Muslim organizations, but homes. This "second phase" of raids and interviews announced by the Department of Justice is unjustifiable considering that the first raid yielded little or nothing in the way of intelligence or enhanced national security. Instead, these raids will further isolate and alienate law-abiding Muslims at a time when law enforcement should seek its cooperation.
Our community and organizations will continue to refuse to forfeit our rights as Americans, including basics such as the right to due process of the law and the full disclosure of law-enforcement action and evidence, if any, against our community.
There are an estimated seven million Muslims in American and some 1.2 billion worldwide.
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Older Comments:
SABRA FROM USA said:
I realize you feel violated when a search is done but don't you want to know that our government will find any wrong doers? My daughter is married to a Saudi Muslim. She is Muslim. He was interviewed by the FBI, INS and CIA. He understands why and so do I. If agents came to me I would understand and hope they get better at their job before any evil person infiltrates our society and harms innocent people again like 9/11. If Muslims help out instead of building a wall then America will be stronger! If Muslims don't assist their own government they should expect problems. As I said before, be patient and do the right thing. You will be rewarded. Good luck to all the Muslims in America. My daughter is one.
2002-04-22
MIKE G. FROM USA said:
These tactics come as no surprise to me, having been born in upstate New York with a lifetime of bad experiences with the "thug" mentality that is so pervasive here.
Maybe this is why our so-called "government" is so sympathetic to the Zionists, who share similar outlooks.
I feel that the vast majority of americans are brain-dead, and especially the "woodchucks" of central new York, who tend to ostracise free thinkers. Because of this, I have always felt like a "stranger in a strange land". But even more so after my conversion to Islam a few years ago, when the stupidity, arrogance, and close-mindedness of these people became truly confirmed.
This is not a democracy, believe me. This is the new Dark Ages, and the Mob rules. A better name for the current type of government we have would be "Mobocracy", where thugs and self-serving criminals are the only "authority" and get to make up the laws & rules. They only understand coercion and force.
It seems to me that the only solution is a paradigm shift in the "culture" of the US where true education replaces the current indoctrination (but being called education). If anyone scoffs at this, I suggest they contact a free thinker who can help remove their blindfold.
Maybe this is why our so-called "government" is so sympathetic to the Zionists, who share similar outlooks.
I feel that the vast majority of americans are brain-dead, and especially the "woodchucks" of central new York, who tend to ostracise free thinkers. Because of this, I have always felt like a "stranger in a strange land". But even more so after my conversion to Islam a few years ago, when the stupidity, arrogance, and close-mindedness of these people became truly confirmed.
This is not a democracy, believe me. This is the new Dark Ages, and the Mob rules. A better name for the current type of government we have would be "Mobocracy", where thugs and self-serving criminals are the only "authority" and get to make up the laws & rules. They only understand coercion and force.
It seems to me that the only solution is a paradigm shift in the "culture" of the US where true education replaces the current indoctrination (but being called education). If anyone scoffs at this, I suggest they contact a free thinker who can help remove their blindfold.
2002-04-21
ANNE FROM PA,USA said:
I am greatly alarmed at thegrowing thug
tactics in this country. And with it goes the little
or no reporting. If it were not for the internet, I
would not have an accurate picture of what is
going on in this country and in Janin and
Ramallah. All Americans need to wake up
about this. We need to protect and support
our Muslim brothers and sisters because we
really are one and we stand or fall together. I
promise to continue to write letters and take
action for justice here and in the Middle East.I
urge others to do so as well. We need to
suport each other.
tactics in this country. And with it goes the little
or no reporting. If it were not for the internet, I
would not have an accurate picture of what is
going on in this country and in Janin and
Ramallah. All Americans need to wake up
about this. We need to protect and support
our Muslim brothers and sisters because we
really are one and we stand or fall together. I
promise to continue to write letters and take
action for justice here and in the Middle East.I
urge others to do so as well. We need to
suport each other.
2002-04-21
VERA FROM USA said:
Anon, there is no need to conjure "unnecessary subconsious images of force, violence...", the actions speak lauder than words.
What do you call FBI agents armed to the teeth, entering in people's homes shouting at them to go down on the floor and handcuffing them, without any charges or warrants.
The problem with many people is that they do not put themselves in the victims shoes and see if they were violated in that way without any reason other than the fact they belong to a certain religion, how would they feel. Wouldn't they be shocked that they have no rights and the law of the land does not apply to them.
What do you call FBI agents armed to the teeth, entering in people's homes shouting at them to go down on the floor and handcuffing them, without any charges or warrants.
The problem with many people is that they do not put themselves in the victims shoes and see if they were violated in that way without any reason other than the fact they belong to a certain religion, how would they feel. Wouldn't they be shocked that they have no rights and the law of the land does not apply to them.
2002-04-10
ANON. FROM USA said:
I believe that the author's use of the word "raid" in this article is a desperate hyperbole used to conjure unnecessary subconsious images of force, violence and chaos, therefore promoting a greater sense of irritation and hate towards the United States Government.
2002-04-09
LLOYD LACY FROM UNITED STATES said:
this is wrong. america the free . what happened to this? this is just like ww2 with the japanese.
those who don't listen to history will be doomed.
it repeats itself. my heart go out to the palistinians. by bombing ramallah you have angried the islamic world. give the land illengaly taken from the palistinians back!
allah akbar! salaam to palistine.
those who don't listen to history will be doomed.
it repeats itself. my heart go out to the palistinians. by bombing ramallah you have angried the islamic world. give the land illengaly taken from the palistinians back!
allah akbar! salaam to palistine.
2002-04-09
VERA FROM USA said:
Robert B I am amazed about you. I do not believe you are what you pretend to be. Your pretence on being so tolerant and having Muslim friends has crumbled with your following statement "You can't honestly say that the only ones who wanted to harm the US died in the plane crashes and are now up in heaven enjoying their virgins, can you?".
Your ignorance is shocking. Especially for someone who does not rely on mainstream media for information. You have echoed what I have heard on tv and radio news and talk shows. If you were truly as informed as you pretend to be you would have known in Islam the horrible events of 9/11 are egregious sins and the ones who committed it are punished in hell. This "virgins in heaven" have been used only by ignorent hateful people and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Regarding the rights of the people the government agencies have targeted, the government can incarcerate them with secret evidence indefinetly before 9/11 and they did not use it on the men who crashed those airplanes even though they were on their list of terrorist. Instead they have targeted successful Muslim organizations and Muslim activists, if this is not like a totaliterian power then I do not know what is it.
Moreover, according to the CIA they knew of Mohamad Atta's trips all over the world and that he was part of Al Qaida network and they claim they lost his tracks once he came to the US. That is moronic, and if anyone buys that is too.
The trouble with many people is that they are blind, deaf and dumb on purpose and accept everything they are told without exercising their intellect if this makes sense or not, or what are the future implications of what is being proposed now.
Your ignorance is shocking. Especially for someone who does not rely on mainstream media for information. You have echoed what I have heard on tv and radio news and talk shows. If you were truly as informed as you pretend to be you would have known in Islam the horrible events of 9/11 are egregious sins and the ones who committed it are punished in hell. This "virgins in heaven" have been used only by ignorent hateful people and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Regarding the rights of the people the government agencies have targeted, the government can incarcerate them with secret evidence indefinetly before 9/11 and they did not use it on the men who crashed those airplanes even though they were on their list of terrorist. Instead they have targeted successful Muslim organizations and Muslim activists, if this is not like a totaliterian power then I do not know what is it.
Moreover, according to the CIA they knew of Mohamad Atta's trips all over the world and that he was part of Al Qaida network and they claim they lost his tracks once he came to the US. That is moronic, and if anyone buys that is too.
The trouble with many people is that they are blind, deaf and dumb on purpose and accept everything they are told without exercising their intellect if this makes sense or not, or what are the future implications of what is being proposed now.
2002-04-06
ROBERT B FROM USA said:
...continued...
I never said anything about taking away all the rights of the defendants. This is not communist China or Russia, the FBI is NOT breaking down the doors of Muslims, tying the wives and kids up and beating the crap out of the homeowners... they are knocking on the doors and asking for co-operation in the investigation of potential crimes against the country they are in. Yes that means opening up their homes and books, but just like I told Shereef, if you are not hiding anything, you might as well be accommodating, or you're going to be branded as a potential trouble-maker. Screaming Civil Rights is not going to help your cause.
You too Vera are guilty of stereotyping. This is at least the third time you did it, by saying that Americans don't learn from history. Nobody is a more stout proponant than I am in believing that if you don't learn history, you are doomed to repeat it. Wouldn't you agree that you have stereotyped all Americans as being that way? And then again by saying "government employees are no different than the rest of the population in their prejudice against Muslims". I beg to differ. I don't know anyone personally that has anything against the Muslim people. And I know A LOT of people. You're just plain crazy if you think we are all alike.
I do not always appreciate or support Civil Rights. I don't believe they are cut in stone. I don't want to be told that I must embrace homosexual marriages, or affirmative action. I don't believe you have a right to burn the American flag or the Bible as a part of free speech (would you condone the burning of the Qur'an or Hadith? No!) It is unfortunate for you that the burden of proving that you and you congregation are not the terrorists we are looking for, but that is how it must be. The USA can't just sit back and wait for someone else to blow themselves up, along with thousands of innocents, and then say "There's one... and there he goes... let's wait for another."
I never said anything about taking away all the rights of the defendants. This is not communist China or Russia, the FBI is NOT breaking down the doors of Muslims, tying the wives and kids up and beating the crap out of the homeowners... they are knocking on the doors and asking for co-operation in the investigation of potential crimes against the country they are in. Yes that means opening up their homes and books, but just like I told Shereef, if you are not hiding anything, you might as well be accommodating, or you're going to be branded as a potential trouble-maker. Screaming Civil Rights is not going to help your cause.
You too Vera are guilty of stereotyping. This is at least the third time you did it, by saying that Americans don't learn from history. Nobody is a more stout proponant than I am in believing that if you don't learn history, you are doomed to repeat it. Wouldn't you agree that you have stereotyped all Americans as being that way? And then again by saying "government employees are no different than the rest of the population in their prejudice against Muslims". I beg to differ. I don't know anyone personally that has anything against the Muslim people. And I know A LOT of people. You're just plain crazy if you think we are all alike.
I do not always appreciate or support Civil Rights. I don't believe they are cut in stone. I don't want to be told that I must embrace homosexual marriages, or affirmative action. I don't believe you have a right to burn the American flag or the Bible as a part of free speech (would you condone the burning of the Qur'an or Hadith? No!) It is unfortunate for you that the burden of proving that you and you congregation are not the terrorists we are looking for, but that is how it must be. The USA can't just sit back and wait for someone else to blow themselves up, along with thousands of innocents, and then say "There's one... and there he goes... let's wait for another."
2002-04-05
ROBERT B FROM USA said:
Apology accepted Vera. I have no other wish than that we can all live together without fighting. It just makes no sense to me why I can have Muslim neighbors, black neighbors, a Mexican wife and neighbors (and kids!), I am of German descent, have Japanese friends, Chinese co-workers, Italian bosses, Jewish class-mates, and we all get along just fine, but still in the world wide picture, religious groups are still arguing and fighting and killing each other over the same issues as what they were fighting over 1000 years ago.
My earlier post, which offended you so, was interpreted correctly. The glory in this country, is that you do have a right to leave if it displeases you. It's difficult to prove, but it seems obvious to me, that we are winning this war on terrorism, because there have been no further devastating attacks. No bombs detonated, no viruses released, no bridges destroyed, Richard Reed was subdued thanks to alert Americans. It's not like they've stopped because they suddenly had a change of heart. Abu Zubaydah, the top ranking UBL aide, all those who were rounded up after 9-11, the potential death of UBL, all the aggressive steps taken by the government, have had results, and that has been no more attacks. You can't honestly say that the only ones who wanted to harm the US died in the plane crashes and are now up in heaven enjoying their virgins, can you? Every guilty terrorist is going to "use the system", as I have said before, and hide under the blanket of "civil rights" so as to strike again down the road. We, as an effective government, cannot allow our hands to be tied by our own laws and NOT be allowed to investigate people who fit the profile, and yes, I said profile, and I feel we must look very closely at those who are potential perpetrators. Spot searching grandmas at airports for the sake of racial balancing is ludicrous.
...continued next post...
My earlier post, which offended you so, was interpreted correctly. The glory in this country, is that you do have a right to leave if it displeases you. It's difficult to prove, but it seems obvious to me, that we are winning this war on terrorism, because there have been no further devastating attacks. No bombs detonated, no viruses released, no bridges destroyed, Richard Reed was subdued thanks to alert Americans. It's not like they've stopped because they suddenly had a change of heart. Abu Zubaydah, the top ranking UBL aide, all those who were rounded up after 9-11, the potential death of UBL, all the aggressive steps taken by the government, have had results, and that has been no more attacks. You can't honestly say that the only ones who wanted to harm the US died in the plane crashes and are now up in heaven enjoying their virgins, can you? Every guilty terrorist is going to "use the system", as I have said before, and hide under the blanket of "civil rights" so as to strike again down the road. We, as an effective government, cannot allow our hands to be tied by our own laws and NOT be allowed to investigate people who fit the profile, and yes, I said profile, and I feel we must look very closely at those who are potential perpetrators. Spot searching grandmas at airports for the sake of racial balancing is ludicrous.
...continued next post...
2002-04-05
VERA FROM USA said:
I apologize for having assumed you have a prejudice against Muslims and assuming you are influenced by the media.
On the other hand your earlier post was very offensive to me as a Muslim. If I can paraphrase your words it is like saying if you can't take the heat than leave.
You have ignored my point that giving all the power to the porsecuter and no right to the defendent can only result in abuse of civil rights. As you know there are many innocent people in prisons right now and they have been given a good defence and the government did reveal the crimes they are accused of. Can you imagine when the crimes are not revealed and the defendent has no idea of what crime he is accused of and he is held indefenetly at the government's discretion. This is a recipe for abuse. If you do not see anything wrong with this, then you should expect your rights as an innocent citizen to be taken from you and you go to prison indefinetly without any proof of wrong doing.
The main reason why this is not an outrage to the rest of Americans is because the target group are the Muslims. If you are not a Muslim you have nothing to be afraid of for now, but if you are well take the heat or leave.
As a Muslim I know there are very negative stereotypes of Muslims in this country, and the government employees are no different from the rest of the population in their prejudice against Muslims, that is why it is extreemly important the laws on civil rights are enforced.
It seems to me Americans do not learn from history, but like crocodiles they always have tears of regret when the abuses have already occured.
On the other hand your earlier post was very offensive to me as a Muslim. If I can paraphrase your words it is like saying if you can't take the heat than leave.
You have ignored my point that giving all the power to the porsecuter and no right to the defendent can only result in abuse of civil rights. As you know there are many innocent people in prisons right now and they have been given a good defence and the government did reveal the crimes they are accused of. Can you imagine when the crimes are not revealed and the defendent has no idea of what crime he is accused of and he is held indefenetly at the government's discretion. This is a recipe for abuse. If you do not see anything wrong with this, then you should expect your rights as an innocent citizen to be taken from you and you go to prison indefinetly without any proof of wrong doing.
The main reason why this is not an outrage to the rest of Americans is because the target group are the Muslims. If you are not a Muslim you have nothing to be afraid of for now, but if you are well take the heat or leave.
As a Muslim I know there are very negative stereotypes of Muslims in this country, and the government employees are no different from the rest of the population in their prejudice against Muslims, that is why it is extreemly important the laws on civil rights are enforced.
It seems to me Americans do not learn from history, but like crocodiles they always have tears of regret when the abuses have already occured.
2002-04-05
ROBERT B FROM USA said:
(Vera) again, ref 3210,
You talk like you know me, and you don't. I have a Muslim neighbor that I love from the bottom of my heart, and have for years. Seeing that you use my name so much, I will tell you something about me... I never EVER watch the news on TV, I believe the media is way too liberal and slanted. I get my news objectively from sites like Islamicity and Reuters. Propaganda? You have to watch TV to be a victim of propoganda. I do not have cable, my single 13" TV is OFF 23 hours of the day, and I spend my time playing with and reading to my two young kids and beautiful wife.
You said "mainstream media", "media bias", "propoganda victim" (twice), "TV channel", "international news", "current atmosphere" and other boob-tube accusations, more times than you repeated my name. Sorry dear, as I said, I refuse to watch TV because it is all crap, so you've pegged me wrong, it doesn't apply to me.
We have not been under 60 years of propoganda, we've been subject to 60 years of softening. If it were the Japanese who crashed into the Twin Towers, I would have said that they too needed to co-operate and open their doors. Propoganda was full-force DURING wartime. The last 60 years have spawned weak-kneed liberalism, homosexual tolerance, pro-abortion activist, loss of religion, political correctness that makes no sense, the demeaning of the strong male, and the acceptance of sexual promiscuity which created several generations of single-mom families without father figures, mis-guided youth, violent drug gangs and perversion.
I have always known that what goes around comes around. I would never ask anybody to do what I wouldn't do myself.
I could sit here and try to analyze you too. But I won't, because that wouldn't be fair. You can't judge someone by a few dozen words posted on the internet. Just remember Vera, do unto others...
For anybody else wondering, I am a devoted Catholic, 36 years old white male, happily married (to a foreigner) with two young
You talk like you know me, and you don't. I have a Muslim neighbor that I love from the bottom of my heart, and have for years. Seeing that you use my name so much, I will tell you something about me... I never EVER watch the news on TV, I believe the media is way too liberal and slanted. I get my news objectively from sites like Islamicity and Reuters. Propaganda? You have to watch TV to be a victim of propoganda. I do not have cable, my single 13" TV is OFF 23 hours of the day, and I spend my time playing with and reading to my two young kids and beautiful wife.
You said "mainstream media", "media bias", "propoganda victim" (twice), "TV channel", "international news", "current atmosphere" and other boob-tube accusations, more times than you repeated my name. Sorry dear, as I said, I refuse to watch TV because it is all crap, so you've pegged me wrong, it doesn't apply to me.
We have not been under 60 years of propoganda, we've been subject to 60 years of softening. If it were the Japanese who crashed into the Twin Towers, I would have said that they too needed to co-operate and open their doors. Propoganda was full-force DURING wartime. The last 60 years have spawned weak-kneed liberalism, homosexual tolerance, pro-abortion activist, loss of religion, political correctness that makes no sense, the demeaning of the strong male, and the acceptance of sexual promiscuity which created several generations of single-mom families without father figures, mis-guided youth, violent drug gangs and perversion.
I have always known that what goes around comes around. I would never ask anybody to do what I wouldn't do myself.
I could sit here and try to analyze you too. But I won't, because that wouldn't be fair. You can't judge someone by a few dozen words posted on the internet. Just remember Vera, do unto others...
For anybody else wondering, I am a devoted Catholic, 36 years old white male, happily married (to a foreigner) with two young
2002-04-04
VERA FROM USA said:
Robert is the classic case of a propaganda victim. I imagine he is one who believes in the media's report on the international news especially when they talk about Muslims. Yet, when it comes to domestic news he as many Americans can distinguish that such and such a channel, radio station or newspaper is liberal, conservative or moderate.
Unfortunatly, blind prejudice against Islam, prevent many Americans to see the mainstream media's bias against Islam. Of course, to those the hate is directed to, it is very obvious, but to those who hate or dislike Islam it is fair reporting.
We cannot make the mistake of looking at the media and goverment as entities that have prejudices against Muslims. Instead we should look at them as organizations that have millions of average people working for them.
These human beings have been subjected to a 60 year propaganda in which they hardly heard anything positive coming from the Muslim world and Islam. As a result, their prejudice against Islam is so ingrained in their psychi that they do not even know it.
To expect any human to practice discretion and give that human being the power to hold anyone they want indefinetly without any proof of wrong doing is unrealistic.
Especially in these times, when the current atmosphere across the board is full of hate toward Muslims. In times like these civil rights laws are put to test and many like Robert see them as impediments in the war against terrorism instead of looking at them as protection against human right abuses.
The only time Robert and the people with similar views will realize the importance of such laws is when he or someone he loves falls victim of it. Then it would be too late to do anything about and Robert would have learned what goes around comes around.
Unfortunatly, blind prejudice against Islam, prevent many Americans to see the mainstream media's bias against Islam. Of course, to those the hate is directed to, it is very obvious, but to those who hate or dislike Islam it is fair reporting.
We cannot make the mistake of looking at the media and goverment as entities that have prejudices against Muslims. Instead we should look at them as organizations that have millions of average people working for them.
These human beings have been subjected to a 60 year propaganda in which they hardly heard anything positive coming from the Muslim world and Islam. As a result, their prejudice against Islam is so ingrained in their psychi that they do not even know it.
To expect any human to practice discretion and give that human being the power to hold anyone they want indefinetly without any proof of wrong doing is unrealistic.
Especially in these times, when the current atmosphere across the board is full of hate toward Muslims. In times like these civil rights laws are put to test and many like Robert see them as impediments in the war against terrorism instead of looking at them as protection against human right abuses.
The only time Robert and the people with similar views will realize the importance of such laws is when he or someone he loves falls victim of it. Then it would be too late to do anything about and Robert would have learned what goes around comes around.
2002-04-04
MOSTANSAR FROM USA said:
Now it should be clear to everyone that America is not our friend......wasting our time and resources in trying to please them is TOTALLY fruitless. In addition, many of these orgs, such as cair, mpac, etc etc have lost respect amongst the general muslim. These orgs. are perceived as Uncle Toms.
regards,
mostansar
regards,
mostansar
2002-03-29
YLLKA FROM CANADA said:
First of all, FBI did not have enough evidence. If people think more they will find out that FBI's reputation went down with the terrorist case.
Why didn't Americans find another way to solve the problem but by doing terrorism themselves, against innocent people.
P.S Common sense: if you have money in you account doesn't mean you are terrorist.
First of all, FBI did not have enough evidence. If people think more they will find out that FBI's reputation went down with the terrorist case.
Why didn't Americans find another way to solve the problem but by doing terrorism themselves, against innocent people.
P.S Common sense: if you have money in you account doesn't mean you are terrorist.
2002-03-29
WALID TAWASIL FROM U.S.A said:
we as muslims must redirect our strategy as a group and emphasize on our voting power.we should
remove all politicians who are anti-islam from power.with 7 million voters,we should be able to
solve this problem.
remove all politicians who are anti-islam from power.with 7 million voters,we should be able to
solve this problem.
2002-03-29
SHEREEF FROM US said:
Robert (3142):
In my msg, I was not using "our laws and system against us", if this is what you were intending. I was merely pointing to the fact that there are procedures in the American Justice system that need fine tuning. But the mere imperfection of the system (naturally occuring, because it is an invention of human beings) HAS BEEN used as an excuse for injustice.
Let's take an ex. in legal history, you will begin to realize that certain American minority groups have previously been denied proper justice in court. For example, prior to ADA act 42 US CODE 12112, there were scanty protections for physically disabled workers. State courts were likely to find no fault in the indiscriminate firing of disabled workers. However, ADA changed that: all cases must be decided without any discrimination on disability. This act is only 12 years old, but what is more surprising is that the earliest direct supreme court case about disability is 1958. It took 42+ years to find stable noncourt measures of countering employment discrimination. And this WOULD'NT have been possible without QUESTIONING THE LOOP HOLES of our justice system.
Law professors continue to do so today, refer to http://www.law.ua.edu/lawreview/tucker521.htm 'The Supreme Court's defintion of disability' by Bonnie Poitras Tucker (University of Alabama, law school).
Indiscriminently opening up doors is a form of injustice, because it violates protectible interests in property and liberty. Mr. Robert, if you were a Muslim, would you open heartedly agree to open up your doors? Or would you see that there has to be rational seperation of which doors to open?
In my msg, I was not using "our laws and system against us", if this is what you were intending. I was merely pointing to the fact that there are procedures in the American Justice system that need fine tuning. But the mere imperfection of the system (naturally occuring, because it is an invention of human beings) HAS BEEN used as an excuse for injustice.
Let's take an ex. in legal history, you will begin to realize that certain American minority groups have previously been denied proper justice in court. For example, prior to ADA act 42 US CODE 12112, there were scanty protections for physically disabled workers. State courts were likely to find no fault in the indiscriminate firing of disabled workers. However, ADA changed that: all cases must be decided without any discrimination on disability. This act is only 12 years old, but what is more surprising is that the earliest direct supreme court case about disability is 1958. It took 42+ years to find stable noncourt measures of countering employment discrimination. And this WOULD'NT have been possible without QUESTIONING THE LOOP HOLES of our justice system.
Law professors continue to do so today, refer to http://www.law.ua.edu/lawreview/tucker521.htm 'The Supreme Court's defintion of disability' by Bonnie Poitras Tucker (University of Alabama, law school).
Indiscriminently opening up doors is a form of injustice, because it violates protectible interests in property and liberty. Mr. Robert, if you were a Muslim, would you open heartedly agree to open up your doors? Or would you see that there has to be rational seperation of which doors to open?
2002-03-28
ESTHER FROM USA said:
Abdul Haqq, Russia is not a Communist country anymore. Though the government seem found of China, and North Korea. The war on drugs is never going to go away, and neither is this war. We are still caughting Nazis. Someone on this board said no one complains when they hunt white people.
2002-03-27
SHARIFF ABDUL SALAAM FROM INDIANA said:
I hate the (force)of action the U.S.government al
ways uses to solve a situation.And I really wish
you (my brothers)tell me what I can do to help stop and establish ALLAH'S WILL.The U.S. history
shows us that their tactics has not and may not
change.I WANT TO HELP!!!!!!!!!!
MY ALLAH'S WILL BE WITH YOU
AND ALL MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD
ways uses to solve a situation.And I really wish
you (my brothers)tell me what I can do to help stop and establish ALLAH'S WILL.The U.S. history
shows us that their tactics has not and may not
change.I WANT TO HELP!!!!!!!!!!
MY ALLAH'S WILL BE WITH YOU
AND ALL MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD
2002-03-27
AHMED ELAMIN FROM USA said:
It is the american people who are made fools of by Israel and her government. jews own the media so of course Muslims are evil. Look at the big picture why is america hated so much by Muslim nation it is american government treatment of us (Muslim) we want a Islam life, we sumitt to Allah but american have no knowledge of Allah or the teaching of Jesus may Allah have marcy on you in the day of judgement. Why America seek Muslim out to kill us and think we will do nothing. america past teachus you are not a friend of the Muslim only to jews and your self
2002-03-27
JIM FROM US OF A said:
Siddiq, Timothy McVeigh too was a militant radical, and fortunately, those who support his actions represent a quarter of one-tenth of a single percent of the population of white American men. And like minded white militant radicals WERE rounded up and DID have their homes raided, and continue to have so done on a regular basis, and we continue to fight a war against those hate-mongers too, only you don't hear them screaming "race-card!" bacause they can't... they're white. Look at Ruby Ridge. Look at Waco and David Koresh. Look at the other separarist extremists white groups in Montana and Idaho, they're not receiving any special treatment, they're being spied upon daily. As they should be.
2002-03-26
ROBERT B FROM USA said:
Any Muslims who cries "foul" and accuses the US government in this time of crisis of going on "fishing exhibitions", is the enemy. I feel that those individuals laugh at their ability to use our own laws and system against us, instead of offering all-out support. Again, if you are NOT a terrorist, open up your doors. Got nothing to hide? CO-OPERATE! And if you do not possess the ability to understand the situation, start packing. I'll say it again, the calling to all good Muslims is to take your US provided education, leave your air-condition homes, your fancy cars, your medical-plans and safe neighborhoods and go back to the Middle East and HELP YOUR BRETHREN!
2002-03-26
ABDUL HAQQ FROM USA said:
Esther -
Exactly how long have'we' been 'fighting' the
War on Drugs? Adn didn't 'we' just assist the
Land of Communism in their war against the
Chechen (sp) rebels?
Less we not forget, this is the same country
that lynches its own people and is home to the
most virulent racism on the earth - which, by
the way, it has yet to attone for. So I would
take the advice of Jesus. peace be upon him,
when it comes to assessing the fairness of
this country - 'You know them by their fruits.'
And this country is know for its 'Strange Fruit.'
Exactly how long have'we' been 'fighting' the
War on Drugs? Adn didn't 'we' just assist the
Land of Communism in their war against the
Chechen (sp) rebels?
Less we not forget, this is the same country
that lynches its own people and is home to the
most virulent racism on the earth - which, by
the way, it has yet to attone for. So I would
take the advice of Jesus. peace be upon him,
when it comes to assessing the fairness of
this country - 'You know them by their fruits.'
And this country is know for its 'Strange Fruit.'
2002-03-26
SIDDIQ FROM USA said:
Lee, if you think Muslims should become the victims of recent raids just because some hijackers were Muslims(?!?), then why not round up all white males in the USA and raid their homes? You get the idea what I say..Timothy McVeigh was a white Christian terrorist and a lot of his followers are still proud of him.
2002-03-26
ESTHER FROM USA said:
Shereef, we are also going to fight communist terrorist and drug lords, who are next door to us. Also, China and North Korea are finding themselves in an unfavorable position.
2002-03-26
SHEREEF FROM US said:
Hey Ester, nice to talk to you as always :)
S&S has always been somewhat controversial, but the SupCrt has given some guidelines. Based on Amdt 4, search must be reasonable and warrants must be (obtained) from probable cause. Probable cause means much more than "this guy is Mohammed and he has $60,000 in his bank account, which is the same bank that was used by suspected terrorists", because the investigator must determine that there is funds transfer between their acc's.
Yet, there is a larger risk: Federal officers are entitled to qualified immunity based upon objectively reasonable belief that a warrantless search LATER DETERMINED TO VIOLATE 4 AMDT was supported by probable cause or exigent circumstances(48 US 635). This means that if the court finds probable cause logical (and few courts/cases probably wouldn't given the currently high alert status), there would most likely be troves of mainly Muslims and some nonmuslims whose legitimately protectible property and liberty rights are violated..AND THERE IS LITTLE RELATIVE LIABILITY ON THE ENFORCEMENT SYSTEM!
What if 'evidence' is unconstitutionally siezed? Evidence obtained through wrongful s&s may sometimes be used in criminal trial if the prosecution can show a sufficient attenuation of the link between police misconduct and obtaining of evidence (371 US 471). And the best attenuation may be 'national security is primary objective.'
Now, is the focus on the Arabs and middle easterners? Yes, because if you look at the FBI's most wanted terrorists: they are all Arabs. Really, if the US was prosecuting all terrorists, why aren't some nonArabs listed on the list? There must have been nonArabs who (supposedly) did equally offensive attacks, and that should be questioned for it.
Maybe there was no space on the list :)
S&S has always been somewhat controversial, but the SupCrt has given some guidelines. Based on Amdt 4, search must be reasonable and warrants must be (obtained) from probable cause. Probable cause means much more than "this guy is Mohammed and he has $60,000 in his bank account, which is the same bank that was used by suspected terrorists", because the investigator must determine that there is funds transfer between their acc's.
Yet, there is a larger risk: Federal officers are entitled to qualified immunity based upon objectively reasonable belief that a warrantless search LATER DETERMINED TO VIOLATE 4 AMDT was supported by probable cause or exigent circumstances(48 US 635). This means that if the court finds probable cause logical (and few courts/cases probably wouldn't given the currently high alert status), there would most likely be troves of mainly Muslims and some nonmuslims whose legitimately protectible property and liberty rights are violated..AND THERE IS LITTLE RELATIVE LIABILITY ON THE ENFORCEMENT SYSTEM!
What if 'evidence' is unconstitutionally siezed? Evidence obtained through wrongful s&s may sometimes be used in criminal trial if the prosecution can show a sufficient attenuation of the link between police misconduct and obtaining of evidence (371 US 471). And the best attenuation may be 'national security is primary objective.'
Now, is the focus on the Arabs and middle easterners? Yes, because if you look at the FBI's most wanted terrorists: they are all Arabs. Really, if the US was prosecuting all terrorists, why aren't some nonArabs listed on the list? There must have been nonArabs who (supposedly) did equally offensive attacks, and that should be questioned for it.
Maybe there was no space on the list :)
2002-03-25
LEE FROM USA said:
Why would one NOT look at the Muslim
community? It was Muslims that hijacked 4
USA airplanes, it was Muslims that cheered
when they crashed into our buildings, and it is
Muslims that bring up their children to be
suicide bombers and hate America. All right
here in the USA!!! I say go back where you
came from if you can't support the hunt and
demonstrate against such heinous acts. Lee
community? It was Muslims that hijacked 4
USA airplanes, it was Muslims that cheered
when they crashed into our buildings, and it is
Muslims that bring up their children to be
suicide bombers and hate America. All right
here in the USA!!! I say go back where you
came from if you can't support the hunt and
demonstrate against such heinous acts. Lee
2002-03-25
ESTHER FROM USA said:
There is not a war on Islam. America is also going after terrorist who are not Muslims.
2002-03-25
GHAZI ALSAYED FROM SAUDI ARABIA said:
we should not find such raid on Muslim homes & school but normal. This is because the raiders are Kafeers-nonMuslim,& kafeer means to me the one who coverup the true & the unlawful ways justifiable to them, the Muslims in the USA have to stand together with their brothers & sisters Muslim of the strong organization such nation of Islam & other Islamic Organization stand together expose such bad treatment in the general public & call people to bear wittness such terror.
2002-03-25
A ABADA FROM UK said:
i think it should be a strick and hit back at anyone how try to destroye your civil liberty, again it should be a huge march near the white house so they can get a message from the muslum and not with the people you can mess about.
i think it should be a strick and hit back at anyone how try to destroye your civil liberty, again it should be a huge march near the white house so they can get a message from the muslum and not with the people you can mess about.
2002-03-25
MOHAMMED FROM VIRGINIA, USA said:
This is utterly sickening to see the double standards and hypocrisy that current Bush/Ashcroft administration is showing towards American Muslims. On one hand, Mr. Bush goes to Mosque saying his war is not against Muslims, on the other hand he sends armed people to Muslim homes to terrorize and treat our sisters like criminals. Mr. Bush and Ashcroft should come out with their true faces of hatred against 7 million Muslims in America and seek unconditional apologies to them.
2002-03-24
AHMAD OPEIFA FROM NIGERIA said:
this is absolutely bizzare!and a display of double standards.that the u.s. can arrest ad interrogate anybody just on the basis of his faith or origin is utterly hypocritic.to my brethren i pray Allah gives you the strenght,patience and tact it takes to pull through this.
ma salaam
ma salaam
2002-03-24
ASMAHAN FROM USA said:
i agree we are americans just as any other american we love our country and we do not want any thing to happen to our people no matter what origin or religion they are. the government should be seeking our help not treating us as criminals.
it seems to me that history did not teach our leaders anything about prejudice and racisem.
it seems to me that history did not teach our leaders anything about prejudice and racisem.
2002-03-24
HYAT GHADBAN FROM CANADA said:
Why else then does the US dish out top of the line military weapons and millions of tax payers money each year into Israel? It would appear that your government is controlled by "Zionists"
2002-03-23
ESTHER FROM USA said:
Ben, in a way we are being stupid. The truth is America and Europe is letting Asians walk all over them. Do you know how many homeless people are in America and Europe? Do you know that Asians make more money then whites? Do you know the Osama bin Laden, and the others that we are fighting are way richer then us?
2002-03-23
HALIM FROM MALAYSIA said:
Ben
If Zionist is not controlling America,
why then when Israelies soldiers killed
Palestinian children American government and people keep quiet. But when a single jewish
killed...American people shouted ...Islam, Arabs, Muslims are terrorists. American people demandaed their government bomb all muslim nations. Look at all the chat room available on the nets and see how American sided the Jews.
The American even allow Israelis army to use Apache helicopters to blast Palestinian authority facilities, hospitals, ambulans and others.
The American even support Israelis soldiers killing a palestinian youth while driving his sister in-law to hospital to give birth.
Just want to know.
If Zionist is not controlling America,
why then when Israelies soldiers killed
Palestinian children American government and people keep quiet. But when a single jewish
killed...American people shouted ...Islam, Arabs, Muslims are terrorists. American people demandaed their government bomb all muslim nations. Look at all the chat room available on the nets and see how American sided the Jews.
The American even allow Israelis army to use Apache helicopters to blast Palestinian authority facilities, hospitals, ambulans and others.
The American even support Israelis soldiers killing a palestinian youth while driving his sister in-law to hospital to give birth.
Just want to know.
2002-03-23
HYAT GHADBAN FROM CANADA said:
When I read stories like this one, I get sick to my stomach. You just had to read between the lines when Bush kept reiterating that "this war is not against Muslims and Islam" like hell it isn't. From where I stand it is precisely the way it is. The intention of the US is to humiliate and kill as many Muslims as they could, I guess what they did in Iraq wasn't enough. Justice, Freedom and Liberty for all--right?
2002-03-23
BEN FROM USA said:
I would like to respond to Najib Mohammed, who delcared that The United States was run by "Zionists" and sort of implied that we all here are just a bunch of idiots who sit back and let "Zionists" control everything. You have some bad information Najib. Some people would like to believe that there is a vast conspiracy going on here because it would make it easier to kill us. If you can paint us a satan's little helpers, then you don't feel so bad when someone actually kills people. Well, It's not true Najib. We are not controlled by anyone other than ourselves.
2002-03-23
HUSSAIN FROM USA said:
I totally agree with the comments made by najib. This war is not against terrorism, but against islam. The muslim worid must realize that this war is war is initiated by Zionists and their motives are clear. They want to stop growing Islamic influence around the world. The jews control the American media. They can cover-up any story they want to, just like they hide Daniel Perl's Nationality. Danile was an Isreali citizen but we never heard that from any nwes reporter.
I think it's time for the muslim world to
speak up and fight for their cause.
I think it's time for the muslim world to
speak up and fight for their cause.
2002-03-23
NAJIB MOHAMMED FROM USA said:
I hope now it is becomming clearer to most Muslims this is not a war against "terrorism" but it is against Islam and Muslims. After all,this is a war initiated by Zionists, and bieng excuted by American Government which is highly controlled by Zionist media and money. It is clear the war is bieng waged on behalf of the state of Isreal. We Muslims should brace ourselves for more harasement and intimidation from the authorities. We should not expect any good from our Amercian government that is bieng advised by loonies so called experts on terrorism such as Steve Emerson. How low can this government go to manifest its hate of Muslims and Islam? I have the feeling that very soon they will declare
Islam to be illegal if not in the world at least in the West.
Islam to be illegal if not in the world at least in the West.
2002-03-22
ESTHER FROM USA said:
I will try this again since my post did not get in to Ali. Ali, you are correct that the Native Americans suffered by the Europeans. Sadly the Native Americans were never going to be able to survive contact from anyone from the Old World. Being an ocean away they were never exposed to disease like measels, and smallpox. My opinion about Muslims coming to Europe was it was both good and bad. It was good because they did give us things like science and math. Even though they were not able to destroy Christianity they did destroy the culture like the Romans did. Also,how many people do you see with fair skin, hair,and eyes do you see? How many people fit the description of the Vickings? SS I am sorry that is how you feel. Americans are very accepting, and tolerant people. We have many problems that we now having to face. If you want me to I will tell you them.
2002-03-22
MAALIK ADIB FROM US said:
I highly criticized care for the comment below.
"We support the president's strategic campaign to combat terrorism and to protect American citizens from attack. This support will remain firm whether
or not we agree with particular tactics used to carry out that campaign..."
I wonder if they still feel this way. I just wonder when Muslims are going to realize that this is indeed a war against Islam and Muslims. And when you assist the Bush administration, you are merely helping them in the war against Islam.
"We support the president's strategic campaign to combat terrorism and to protect American citizens from attack. This support will remain firm whether
or not we agree with particular tactics used to carry out that campaign..."
I wonder if they still feel this way. I just wonder when Muslims are going to realize that this is indeed a war against Islam and Muslims. And when you assist the Bush administration, you are merely helping them in the war against Islam.
2002-03-22
SS FROM SWEDEN said:
The international community had good reasons to kick-out US from the UN Human Rights committee.
2002-03-22
HOUSAM HAJYOUSIF FROM USA said:
As the slogan states "United We Stand, Divided We fall". The Muslim UMA have to See, Hear, and Speak with One Voice. The Muslims in India in what is called the largest Democracy in the world are being genocide with out a wimper of condemnation from the so called free world. The muslims in Palestine are being killed by what is called the only Democracy in the Middle East. The so called inventor, teacher and exporter of Democracy is teaching the world what it means by Democracy with concrete actions against it's own citizens. I believe we need a new light to follow there is no light in the US. All I see is darkness on the horizon for this country if it continues to follow the path the blind.
2002-03-22
PROF. S. WAQAR AHMED HUSAINI FROM USA said:
We, Muslim Americans, should take all appropriate steps to oppose the Federal Agencies misusing their powers against U.S. Muslims and Islamic organizations in USA. These steps should include
doing whatever is right in USA through legal and political rights available to us, and internationally through various human rights and other organizations.
What has been done is an uncalled for action against Islam and Muslims that does immense damage to U.S. interests, domestic and international. It is clearly against US interests, short-term and long-term.
S. Waqar Ahmed Husaini
doing whatever is right in USA through legal and political rights available to us, and internationally through various human rights and other organizations.
What has been done is an uncalled for action against Islam and Muslims that does immense damage to U.S. interests, domestic and international. It is clearly against US interests, short-term and long-term.
S. Waqar Ahmed Husaini
2002-03-22
