Category: Asia, World Affairs Topics: Government And Politics, Hate Crimes, India Views: 4397
4397
Gujarat Genocide Remembered
Gujrat, India Riots 2002
February 27, 2002, was a day of great trial for Muslims of Gujarat. On that day, the supporters of the ruling Bharitiya Janata Party came on streets showing their hatred against Muslims. For almost one month, they would occupy these streets killing Muslims in their sight, burning them and their homes, raping their women and tossing their children in fire. During this period they would kill more than 5,000 people and destroy property worth billions of dollars. During this period, their leaders would denounce Islam and Muslims and demand that Muslims be extradited from the state of Gujarat. The month long orgy of violence and hatred is still afresh in the minds of Muslims and others in India. This year on February 27, Muslim Indians will be asking a few questions, questions that are fundamental to their existence in India.
1 Why is it that after one year of investigations, some of the major players who caused this genocide are still free?
2 Why is that the people of Gujarat voted the ruling BJP again to power?
3 Why is that the central government failed to prosecute the chief minister who is responsible for this genocide?
4 Why is it that the Muslim world preferred to remain silent on the issue?
5 Why is it the United States did not take stronger steps to denounce these terrorists?
6 What is the guarantee that Gujarat would not be repeated in other parts of India?
7 What should Muslims do if the state and its law enforcement agencies fail to defend its own citizens?
8 Will the Muslim leadership in India unite in defense of the rights of Muslims?
9 How long will it take for Muslims to live in peace and security in India?
10 How long will they be persecuted by the forces of hatred and vengeance?
These questions are relevant and appropriate as they expose the concerns of the one of the world's largest Muslim population. There are about 200 million Muslims in India, which are at the bottom of all layers of Indian society. Literacy rate among Muslims is the lowest in the nation. Employment in federal and state services is no more than 4 percent. Their representation in law enforcement agencies is the lowest among all other communities. Above all, they have been the worst victims of violence in independent India. More than 10,000 anti-Muslim riots have been reported in India since 1947, when the country achieved its independence from the British colonialists. Ever since the ruling BJP came to power, tirade against Islam and Muslims have been on the rise. During the BJP rule their religion and religious institutions have come under attack. Official discrimination has become a norm rather than an exception.
Muslims in India face two major problems. One is coming from their own leadership, which is silent on some of the fundamental issues raised in the form of questions mentioned above. Second is coming from the fascist leadership of the BJP and its various affiliates such as the Rashrtiya Swaym Sewak Sangh, the Bajarang Dal, the Shiv Sena and hundreds of other organizations in different aspects of Indian life. The RSS believes in a Hitler like solution of minorities in India. It considers the Muslim presence in India a threat to India's Hindu traditions and demands Muslims to rescind certain verses of the Quran.
The Muslim leadership in India has failed to develop a coherent strategy to fight the fascist forces. The leadership is divided and indulges in infighting rather than facing the emerging challenges in an organized manner. Consequently, the Muslim community is exposed to violence, hatred and discrimination. Hopefully, on February 27, the leadership will have a moment or two to reflect on the plight of its people and will at least resolve to face the fascist forces in alliance with those secularists in India who feel that India has been usurped by people who are religious bigots.
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Older Comments:
ASGAR ANSARI FROM INDIA said:
What more serious analysis does Romesh Chander want. The author has placed the blame of the muslims plight on their own lot. But that doesnt mean that the perpetrators of such injustices to the Muslims, be it the Congress or the Sangh Parivar get absolved from the blame. Muslims have been systematically targeted in India..through riots, through denial of equal opportunities and through lack of schemes for their development. Muslim population centres have been denied development, industrial growth opportunities and other means of development. It is for Muslims themselves to pick themselves upo and give a fitting reply to such people and prove that they are capable of improving their distressing situation in India by sheer hardwork and determination.
2004-05-11
ROMESH CHANDER FROM USA said:
No serious analysis of the problem. Usual cry baby writing, and this from an educated person (the author calls himself a Dr; so either he must have a PhD or a medical degree).
Give me one example of any country in the entire world where Muslims don't have problems these days; and you cannot blame the entire world for this. It used to be peaceful for muslims in US; looks like it is not going to be so peaceful anymore; and the problem is of their own creation. Seems like muslims are good at converting even heaven into hell.
Give me one example of any country in the entire world where Muslims don't have problems these days; and you cannot blame the entire world for this. It used to be peaceful for muslims in US; looks like it is not going to be so peaceful anymore; and the problem is of their own creation. Seems like muslims are good at converting even heaven into hell.
2003-05-16
REAL INDIAN FROM USA said:
Thanks Csaba, but lets be fair and call it what it is : Hindu TERRORISM.
2003-03-03
MANJIT SINGH FROM INDIA said:
Csaba,
thank you for being true to your faith. Practising what it preaches. I am certain that India will overcome this period.
Once agin thanks for your enlightened thoughts.
thank you for being true to your faith. Practising what it preaches. I am certain that India will overcome this period.
Once agin thanks for your enlightened thoughts.
2003-02-25
CSABA FROM USA/HUMAN EARTH said:
All my life I have held a special place in my heart for India and inturn all the Indian people I have met have only welcomed me with positive emotions. I have met many Indians; Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, Buddists and Chirstians. I live one block from a Sikh temple. Everyday I walk or drive by it and everytime I wave to the people. At my college I talk to Sikhs and Hindus almost daily. They all know I am Muslim of Hungarian-Spanisn origins. We don't care for religious idenity, we have a inner devotion to be free of hate and tyranny. Speeking from my heart as a convert to Islam, I belive we can overcome hatred in Gujarat! We must respect eachother. I suggest we start by building solderity between all Indians thorugh peace. : ) I hope that we all can find the positive life energy within all of us that India is so famous for! Allah bless India, all India! Salam
2003-02-25
REAL INDIAN FROM USA said:
Dear psuedo-Indian, I have every right to call it as it is. Problem is you are in severe denial about India. It is no longer Gandhi's India, it is the India run by Gandhi's assassins which is a terrorist. Conducting pogrums against Indian Muslims and Christians is the strategy by the BJP/RSS ruling party to win elections, particularly in states where they are cant win.
To deny that there is an organized campaign by Hindu fascists to purge the country of minorities is nothing short of criminal intent. How can you defend Hindu terrorists who openly proclaim their admiration of Hitler and Mussolini ? India is now a terrorist state, run my men whose constituency consists of criminals, rapists and Hindu religious extremists. Have the guts to face the ugly truth.
To deny that there is an organized campaign by Hindu fascists to purge the country of minorities is nothing short of criminal intent. How can you defend Hindu terrorists who openly proclaim their admiration of Hitler and Mussolini ? India is now a terrorist state, run my men whose constituency consists of criminals, rapists and Hindu religious extremists. Have the guts to face the ugly truth.
2003-02-25
INDIAN FROM INDIA said:
No person would call his own country a terrorist nation, as Real Indian calls it. I agree that there are fascist influences in parts of the country. However, there is also no effort on part of either community to live and let live. There is always a struggle to display that either is a "poor me". The problem lies in the attitude, not politicians, governments or religions. It is an attitude problem with many people in India which prevents them from coming away from trivialities and working towards actual progress. The genocide was unforgivable. But is blaming any particular set of people going to help? India is the reason the concept of secularism survives. There were enough Hindu leaders at the time of the partition to form a force strong enough to push Muslims out and make India a Hindu state. Did that happen? No! In spite of heinous activities by its neighbours, the Indian man still looks at people of different religions with respect. The Indian president is a Muslim for God's sake !! How can anyone call India a terrorist nation. None in right mind can.
2003-02-24
SANA FROM FROM INDIA said:
I like your way of expressing views, with examples, pictures, etc. It really touches my heart. I am eager to receive and read your e-mails about current issues. It gives me an idea of what is right and true despite the American propoganda. Your pages keep me well informed.
Thank you!
Thank you!
2003-02-24
ANWAR HUSSEIN FROM USA said:
As an Indian Muslim, I note with great distress the comments by Dr. Aslam Abdullah.
Let me assure him and the Ummah that many of us are working to strengthen the cause of Muslims of India, and protect them from fascism.
Here is an analysis that will help readers understand that: http://www.saag.org/papers6/paper535.html
Let me assure him and the Ummah that many of us are working to strengthen the cause of Muslims of India, and protect them from fascism.
Here is an analysis that will help readers understand that: http://www.saag.org/papers6/paper535.html
2003-02-24
MANJIT SINGH FROM INDIA said:
Azad,
I agree. Election Commission tried to intervene but could not get enough proof to strike him off. If you recall Election Commission struck Shiv Sena boss of electoral roll.
I do hope for the sake of people, democarcy and well being of the country jsutice is done and done swiftly.
Thanks and see you on the web
I agree. Election Commission tried to intervene but could not get enough proof to strike him off. If you recall Election Commission struck Shiv Sena boss of electoral roll.
I do hope for the sake of people, democarcy and well being of the country jsutice is done and done swiftly.
Thanks and see you on the web
2003-02-23
REAL INDIAN FROM USA said:
The problem with Manjit and his fellow apologists for terrorism and genocide is they must perpetuate falsehoods to butress their arguements.
Anybody with a remote understanding of Indian politics knows that the country is being run by Hindu thugs and gangsters who will use even genocide to further their agenda of turning India into a fascist state. What is truly disturbing are the number of Hindus in the west funding these terrorist groups.
India's democracy is a scam bragged about to secure loans and other goodies from the international community. It is a terrorist state which must be contained if south-Asia is have stability.
Anybody with a remote understanding of Indian politics knows that the country is being run by Hindu thugs and gangsters who will use even genocide to further their agenda of turning India into a fascist state. What is truly disturbing are the number of Hindus in the west funding these terrorist groups.
India's democracy is a scam bragged about to secure loans and other goodies from the international community. It is a terrorist state which must be contained if south-Asia is have stability.
2003-02-23
AZAD FROM US said:
Thanks Manjit!
It doesn't matter to me whether 1 person, 1 million or more killed unjustly and by whomsoever. It is really unfortunate and unacceptable that so many people got killed.
But do you think after direct involvement in pogrom, the Gujrat CM Mr. Modi should have been allowed to stand for election?
Democaracy doesn't mean that the killers and terrorist should be allowed to rule. Manjit our democracy is dying! Who are the current rulers in India? Those who killed Gandhi!
Read the following link:
http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/2002/FEH/index.html
Thanks and keep in touch.
It doesn't matter to me whether 1 person, 1 million or more killed unjustly and by whomsoever. It is really unfortunate and unacceptable that so many people got killed.
But do you think after direct involvement in pogrom, the Gujrat CM Mr. Modi should have been allowed to stand for election?
Democaracy doesn't mean that the killers and terrorist should be allowed to rule. Manjit our democracy is dying! Who are the current rulers in India? Those who killed Gandhi!
Read the following link:
http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/2002/FEH/index.html
Thanks and keep in touch.
2003-02-23
FAHIM FROM CYPRUS said:
*!This one will be long so have Patience while reading*!
All said and done, I feel the comments will cease any day on this topic and article might slip into archives. The most obvious point that remains is World is zeroing in on Muslims and Muslims seem to be on the run everywhere. This point was highlightied by none other than RSS chief recently. The people that make no attempt to hide their happiness on this news primarily belong to Hindutvavaadis and Zionists. Muslims will have nothing to gain by blaming anyone and expecting justice for to ask for Justice with someone who isn't afraid of God neither believes in humanity is perfect waste of time. No doubt Muslims are themselves part of the blame as when Kurds die in Iraq, Muslim Shias die in Pakistan, we hardly raise our voices. Even now, we have people like saddam who won't relinquish power for the sake of his people instead happily send them to American incinerators. With the dismal state of our self styled leaders (both Indian and Islamic), things will further deteriorate than improve. Enemies of Islam are at an all time high morale thinking of prevailing conditions as their golden opportunity to hit Muslims and Islam so hard so as to attempt giving it a last and final blow.
first and foremost thing we can all do at individual levels is to TALK! Talk about the peaceful tolerance nature of our religion with our non-Muslim friends/collegues. individual efforts go a long way at dispelling misconcepions.
Second, Conduct! let's try to set examples that companions of the prophet might have set. Let's try at least. Get over with shia-sunni, shaikh,syed caste groups and Unite! Unite for common cause. Let's help fellow Muslims and make Duas. Lots of it! "If you have suffered a defeat, so did the enemy. We alternate these vicissitudes among mankind so that Allah may know the true believers and choose martyrs from among you. Allah does not love the unjust. (3:140)
Let's not die as an "Unjust" in the sights of Allah.
All said and done, I feel the comments will cease any day on this topic and article might slip into archives. The most obvious point that remains is World is zeroing in on Muslims and Muslims seem to be on the run everywhere. This point was highlightied by none other than RSS chief recently. The people that make no attempt to hide their happiness on this news primarily belong to Hindutvavaadis and Zionists. Muslims will have nothing to gain by blaming anyone and expecting justice for to ask for Justice with someone who isn't afraid of God neither believes in humanity is perfect waste of time. No doubt Muslims are themselves part of the blame as when Kurds die in Iraq, Muslim Shias die in Pakistan, we hardly raise our voices. Even now, we have people like saddam who won't relinquish power for the sake of his people instead happily send them to American incinerators. With the dismal state of our self styled leaders (both Indian and Islamic), things will further deteriorate than improve. Enemies of Islam are at an all time high morale thinking of prevailing conditions as their golden opportunity to hit Muslims and Islam so hard so as to attempt giving it a last and final blow.
first and foremost thing we can all do at individual levels is to TALK! Talk about the peaceful tolerance nature of our religion with our non-Muslim friends/collegues. individual efforts go a long way at dispelling misconcepions.
Second, Conduct! let's try to set examples that companions of the prophet might have set. Let's try at least. Get over with shia-sunni, shaikh,syed caste groups and Unite! Unite for common cause. Let's help fellow Muslims and make Duas. Lots of it! "If you have suffered a defeat, so did the enemy. We alternate these vicissitudes among mankind so that Allah may know the true believers and choose martyrs from among you. Allah does not love the unjust. (3:140)
Let's not die as an "Unjust" in the sights of Allah.
2003-02-23
SALIM AKHTAR YUSUFJI FROM INDIA said:
Dear Dr. Abdullah,
I discovered your article on a chance, while browsing on the internet. The questions you have posed are valid but struck me as being rather one-sided. While you are entirely correct in holding the view that the muslims of India are undergoing a period of crisis, I felt that you failed to take into account the historical dimension of the issue. Muslims, and the Islamic world in general, have not committed themselves unequivocally on the issue of tolerance. This country has, during the long years of its history, seen many demonstrations of intolerance from its muslim inhabitants, culminating in partition in 1947. On issues like women's rights and secular education the record of our community has been abysmal, not unlike that of muslims in the rest of the world! All this has also coloured the perception of the muslim world in the eyes of other communities.
While you are right to denounce the fascist forces that are gaining ground in India, the need of the hour is also for muslims to do some honest stock-taking with regard to their own non-democratic tendencies, which have repeatedly strangled moves towards progress. I think that muslims would do well to acknowledge our own serious lapses, and perhaps come around to seeing that we are hardly blameless in a world scenario dominated by currents of feeling against us.
Yours sincerely, Salim Yusufji
I discovered your article on a chance, while browsing on the internet. The questions you have posed are valid but struck me as being rather one-sided. While you are entirely correct in holding the view that the muslims of India are undergoing a period of crisis, I felt that you failed to take into account the historical dimension of the issue. Muslims, and the Islamic world in general, have not committed themselves unequivocally on the issue of tolerance. This country has, during the long years of its history, seen many demonstrations of intolerance from its muslim inhabitants, culminating in partition in 1947. On issues like women's rights and secular education the record of our community has been abysmal, not unlike that of muslims in the rest of the world! All this has also coloured the perception of the muslim world in the eyes of other communities.
While you are right to denounce the fascist forces that are gaining ground in India, the need of the hour is also for muslims to do some honest stock-taking with regard to their own non-democratic tendencies, which have repeatedly strangled moves towards progress. I think that muslims would do well to acknowledge our own serious lapses, and perhaps come around to seeing that we are hardly blameless in a world scenario dominated by currents of feeling against us.
Yours sincerely, Salim Yusufji
2003-02-23
MANJIT SINGH FROM INDIA said:
To Azad, Author and others,
Here is the name of the greatest genocidal killer of Mulims:
Yahya Khan (Pakistan: 1969-71)
Surprise Surprise it is a fellow muslim...some of his cohorts are the super hero's of the muslim world...You can follow the chain of command in pakistan and you will find all the names...justice for Bangaldeshi Muslims!
Here is the name of the greatest genocidal killer of Mulims:
Yahya Khan (Pakistan: 1969-71)
Surprise Surprise it is a fellow muslim...some of his cohorts are the super hero's of the muslim world...You can follow the chain of command in pakistan and you will find all the names...justice for Bangaldeshi Muslims!
2003-02-23
MANJIT SINGH FROM INDIA said:
This is for Azad, Author (who should be seeking justice for 2 million bangladeshi)and others who doubt my Statistics (Please also refer to The article on this website that "180 Million Killed in 20th Century" You will all get further details
Synopsis is Presented below:
The high estimates of how many Bengalis were massacred are almost 10 times the low estimates:
WHPSI: 307,013 deaths by pol.viol. in Pakistan, 1971.
D.Smith says 500,000
S&S
Civil War, Mar.-Dec. 1971: 500,000
International War, Dec. 1971
India: 8,000
Pakistan: 3,000
TOTAL: 11,000
1984 World Almanac: up to 1,000,000 civilians were killed.
Hartman:
Bengalis: 1,000,000
India: 10,633
Pakistan: 17,000
B&J
Bengalis: 1,000,000
W. Pakistan: 8,000
India: 2-3,000
Kuper cites a study by Chaudhuri which counted 1,247,000 dead, and mentions the possibility that it may be as many as 3,000,000.
Porter: 1M-2M
Rummel: 1,500,000.
Eckhardt:
Bangladesh: 1,000,000 civ. + 500,000 mil. = 1,500,000
Indo-Paki War: 11,000
Harff & Gurr: 1,250,000 to 3,000,000
Rounaq Johan: 3,000,000 (in Century of Genocide: Eyewitness Accounts and Critical Views, Samuel Totten, ed., (1997))
Compton's Encyclopedia, "Genocide": 3,000,000
WPA3, International War, 1971
India: 3,037
Pakistan: 7,982
TOTAL: 11,019
Synopsis is Presented below:
The high estimates of how many Bengalis were massacred are almost 10 times the low estimates:
WHPSI: 307,013 deaths by pol.viol. in Pakistan, 1971.
D.Smith says 500,000
S&S
Civil War, Mar.-Dec. 1971: 500,000
International War, Dec. 1971
India: 8,000
Pakistan: 3,000
TOTAL: 11,000
1984 World Almanac: up to 1,000,000 civilians were killed.
Hartman:
Bengalis: 1,000,000
India: 10,633
Pakistan: 17,000
B&J
Bengalis: 1,000,000
W. Pakistan: 8,000
India: 2-3,000
Kuper cites a study by Chaudhuri which counted 1,247,000 dead, and mentions the possibility that it may be as many as 3,000,000.
Porter: 1M-2M
Rummel: 1,500,000.
Eckhardt:
Bangladesh: 1,000,000 civ. + 500,000 mil. = 1,500,000
Indo-Paki War: 11,000
Harff & Gurr: 1,250,000 to 3,000,000
Rounaq Johan: 3,000,000 (in Century of Genocide: Eyewitness Accounts and Critical Views, Samuel Totten, ed., (1997))
Compton's Encyclopedia, "Genocide": 3,000,000
WPA3, International War, 1971
India: 3,037
Pakistan: 7,982
TOTAL: 11,019
2003-02-23
KATO FROM USA said:
Tsk tsk, the problem isnt where Indian Muslims send their kids for education. The problem is that Hindus are becoming terrorists hell bent on turning India into a fascist state.
Its no secret that Hindu fanatics school their children to become terrorists and gang-rapists as is evidenced by their open admiration of Nazi Germanys polices and the terror "schools" run by them. Their aim is simply to turn India into a Hindus only country where minorities are either exterminated or converted to the lowest rung of the Hindu caste system. They are heartless uncivilized savages with not an iota of humanity in them.
It comes as no surprise that Gandhi's murderers are the ones calling the shots now. They are turning the clock back on a great nation.
Its no secret that Hindu fanatics school their children to become terrorists and gang-rapists as is evidenced by their open admiration of Nazi Germanys polices and the terror "schools" run by them. Their aim is simply to turn India into a Hindus only country where minorities are either exterminated or converted to the lowest rung of the Hindu caste system. They are heartless uncivilized savages with not an iota of humanity in them.
It comes as no surprise that Gandhi's murderers are the ones calling the shots now. They are turning the clock back on a great nation.
2003-02-22
POOR JERRY FROM CANADA said:
have you forgotton why in the first place the riots started, by burning a train carrying innocent people. This is not a mator of minority or majority. All the people of India want is India for Indians thats it. you have pointed out that there were no. of riots against Muslims , well some other community also suffered. No country in the world has minority people in the highest office of the government, more than once. Name any other country.
The general level of poverty is widespread even in other classes not only the muslims. It is however unfortunate that most of the muslim families send their children to Madrassas which is not bad one should have the knowledge of their religious beliefs. But unfortunately they ignore modern eductaion due to which they are unable to get skills for peacefull sources of living.
So another time when writing such articles know the facts and look at the other side of the story too.
The general level of poverty is widespread even in other classes not only the muslims. It is however unfortunate that most of the muslim families send their children to Madrassas which is not bad one should have the knowledge of their religious beliefs. But unfortunately they ignore modern eductaion due to which they are unable to get skills for peacefull sources of living.
So another time when writing such articles know the facts and look at the other side of the story too.
2003-02-22
MANJIT SINGH FROM INDIA said:
Dear Azad, you could go to the UN Human Rights website follow on to Holocaust. You can also visit the Bangladesh Government Archives in Dhaka. There are enough documenst on this. iN fact Pakistan admits to 1.0 million (they argue about the other million with the Bangla Government.
Answer to your question no one death is too many. I sorry things have happened in India that have bought shame to all of us Indians. I just take issue with the writer that there were 10,000 riots against muslims in India since 1947? All of them have not total anywhere clsoe to 2 million butchered by the Pakistan army yet nota peep from muslim ummah, not a resolution demanding justice in UN nothing total silence. [I challenge the Website or the author of this article to prove me wrong on the holocaust in bangladesh?]
If you go by Pakistani records you will get a million or if you go by Bangladeshi records you will get 2.0 million. UN shows a number greater than 1.0 million they do not commnet on the maximum they simpley say greater than 1.0 million
Nothing excuses the Gujarat issue though and justice must be achieved.
Answer to your question no one death is too many. I sorry things have happened in India that have bought shame to all of us Indians. I just take issue with the writer that there were 10,000 riots against muslims in India since 1947? All of them have not total anywhere clsoe to 2 million butchered by the Pakistan army yet nota peep from muslim ummah, not a resolution demanding justice in UN nothing total silence. [I challenge the Website or the author of this article to prove me wrong on the holocaust in bangladesh?]
If you go by Pakistani records you will get a million or if you go by Bangladeshi records you will get 2.0 million. UN shows a number greater than 1.0 million they do not commnet on the maximum they simpley say greater than 1.0 million
Nothing excuses the Gujarat issue though and justice must be achieved.
2003-02-22
TIRED OF CHRISTIAN LIARS FROM USA said:
Well "Mike Sampson" you've confirmed for me what a complete imbecile you are. I couldnt care less what an ignoramus like you thought about Islam.
Hell, its rather obvious you have a problem with Muslims defending themselves from Hindu mobs consisting of gang-rapists and government sponsored terrorists. Apparently for you folks defending themselves and their property negates being peaceful...hmmm ever heard of the American Revolution? Hell, you dont even know if I'm Muslim ! Maybe I'm someone who reads history and doesnt buy the excrement on TV...Maybe I'm a low-caste Hindu experienced in the ways of being a victim of the Brahmin over-class...and maybe I'm just tired of Christian liars.
As for the Palestinians, they NEVER celebrated the 9/11 tradegy....that tape shown on CNN was 10 years old...this scam was exposed by both the European and South American press a long time ago. But it seems the lie did its work, putting ignorant morons in heat. As for Israel...go find out about a pair of incidents called the Lavon Affair and the USS Liberty before happilly sending your tax dollars to fund murderous scum.
I'll repeat what I said before Mike, you simply have no knowledge about this kind material...you know nothing of Islam, India and worst of all your own country. You are a weak minded brainwashed lemming who should go back to the world of "Jackass" and "Joe Millionaire." Now onder this country is in the state it is in today.
Hell, its rather obvious you have a problem with Muslims defending themselves from Hindu mobs consisting of gang-rapists and government sponsored terrorists. Apparently for you folks defending themselves and their property negates being peaceful...hmmm ever heard of the American Revolution? Hell, you dont even know if I'm Muslim ! Maybe I'm someone who reads history and doesnt buy the excrement on TV...Maybe I'm a low-caste Hindu experienced in the ways of being a victim of the Brahmin over-class...and maybe I'm just tired of Christian liars.
As for the Palestinians, they NEVER celebrated the 9/11 tradegy....that tape shown on CNN was 10 years old...this scam was exposed by both the European and South American press a long time ago. But it seems the lie did its work, putting ignorant morons in heat. As for Israel...go find out about a pair of incidents called the Lavon Affair and the USS Liberty before happilly sending your tax dollars to fund murderous scum.
I'll repeat what I said before Mike, you simply have no knowledge about this kind material...you know nothing of Islam, India and worst of all your own country. You are a weak minded brainwashed lemming who should go back to the world of "Jackass" and "Joe Millionaire." Now onder this country is in the state it is in today.
2003-02-22
AZHAR MUHAMMED KHAN FROM USA said:
SubhanAllah !
2003-02-22
SHAIKH7237 FROM USA said:
A VERY GOOD ARTICLE BY DR.ASLAM ABDULLAH. THE MUSLIM LEADERSHIP IS DIVIDED & INVOLVED IN INFIGHTING. JUST IMAGINE HOW STRONG MUSLIMS CAN BECOME IF ALL 200 MILLION COME UNDER ONE POLITICAL PARTY? THE UGLY AGENDA OF RSS ,BJP,HINDU MAHASABHA,VHP& OTHERS CAN BE FOUGHT EFFECTIVELY ONLY IF MUSLIMS CAN BECOME A POWERFULL POLITICAL BLOCK. SINCE INDEPENDENCE ALL THE POLITICAL PARTIES HAVE USED THEM FOR THEIR OWN GAIN. THEY HAVE BEEN SO SUCCESSFULL IN KEEPING MUSLIMS OUT OF ECONOMIC & POLITICAL MAIN STREAM. I AM FROM AHMEDABAD GUJARAT EVERY TIME I VISIT INDIA I SEE IN THE EYES OF MUSLIMS NOTHING BUT FEAR OF VIOLENCE,NO HOPE FOR THE FUTURE OF THEIR CHILDREN,UTTER POVERTY AND UNTOLD GRIEVANCES. ALL OTHER HAVE DONE AMAZINGLY WELL ECONOMICALLY. NEW DEVELOPEMENTS,THEY HAVE JOBS IN PRIVATE SECTROR , IN GOVT., LAW ENFORCEMENT, ALL BRANCHES OF DEFENCE. MUSLIMS ARE NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. THERE IS ONLY ONE OPTION FOR MUSLIMS AND IT IS NOT A NEW ONE AND THAT ONE IS EDUCATION DEENI AND DUNYAVI.THERE IS SIMPLY NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE BUT EDUCATION.
2003-02-22
AMIN FROM USA said:
Simo,
Jewish congress?! 85% those are some pretty radical numbers to not site credible sources...
Maybe you should go back to Kinder Garden will you will learn that 7 from 300 is not 75%
Jewish congress?! 85% those are some pretty radical numbers to not site credible sources...
Maybe you should go back to Kinder Garden will you will learn that 7 from 300 is not 75%
2003-02-21
FIROZALI S. MALIK FROM U.S.A. said:
I agree with you.
Muslims these days have become like gypsis. No safe home and security.
Like you have mentioned, all muslims should unite for common cause leaving aside their ethnicity - I am sunny and cannot inter-act with shia or he is from one shia sect and I am from another shia sect attitude.
This attitude should be dropped and put a side immediately. Next, muslims should acquire more knowledge, get more education and organize.
Wish you all the best.
Muslims these days have become like gypsis. No safe home and security.
Like you have mentioned, all muslims should unite for common cause leaving aside their ethnicity - I am sunny and cannot inter-act with shia or he is from one shia sect and I am from another shia sect attitude.
This attitude should be dropped and put a side immediately. Next, muslims should acquire more knowledge, get more education and organize.
Wish you all the best.
2003-02-21
AZAD FROM US said:
Manjit,
Can you support your argument by showing any official document which says "Pakistani" killed 2 million "Bangladesis"? This number looks highly Exaggerated. But you may be right!
But do you think that if somebody did such heinous thing in the past and got free then we should allow people to do such things today? I mean what is your point? Are you saying that in the past Pakistan did such things to their fellow brothers so others got a license to do these things?
Thanks!
Can you support your argument by showing any official document which says "Pakistani" killed 2 million "Bangladesis"? This number looks highly Exaggerated. But you may be right!
But do you think that if somebody did such heinous thing in the past and got free then we should allow people to do such things today? I mean what is your point? Are you saying that in the past Pakistan did such things to their fellow brothers so others got a license to do these things?
Thanks!
2003-02-21
ALI FROM USA said:
Just a brief comments to MIKE SAMPSON and others: Yes the Muslims did burn the train and they were wrong to do so. But they were deliberately being provoked by the Hindu thugs making pilgrimage to Ayodhya, to the site where they had demolished a mosque and were planning on erecting a Hindu temple.
In the train these drunken bastards were loud and disorderly towards the Muslim passengers. The trains these thugs rode passed through Muslim villages and, at every station, these idiots would arrogantly provoke the Muslims and loot from the Muslim vendors.
When an elderly vendor tried to protect his items, these hindu scums forced his daughter into the train when she tried to come to his aid. One can only imagine what may have transpired then inside the train.
The tinderbox was lit when the pleas to free the girl went unheeded.
I don't condone violence on either side, but I feel it's important that you are presented with a complete picture, not the one with the head cut off.
Rightfully, the Indian government went after the Muslims that took part in burning the train. However, I haven't heard about any Hindus being brought to justice.
In the train these drunken bastards were loud and disorderly towards the Muslim passengers. The trains these thugs rode passed through Muslim villages and, at every station, these idiots would arrogantly provoke the Muslims and loot from the Muslim vendors.
When an elderly vendor tried to protect his items, these hindu scums forced his daughter into the train when she tried to come to his aid. One can only imagine what may have transpired then inside the train.
The tinderbox was lit when the pleas to free the girl went unheeded.
I don't condone violence on either side, but I feel it's important that you are presented with a complete picture, not the one with the head cut off.
Rightfully, the Indian government went after the Muslims that took part in burning the train. However, I haven't heard about any Hindus being brought to justice.
2003-02-21
MIKE SAMPSON FROM U.S.A said:
This is addressed to Tired of Christian liars.
Each one your posts is what confirms to me your religion brings no peace. You are angry, and bitter and have no inner peace in your life, and nobody can prove that point better than you are doing thank you.
I never denied that Christians haven't used the sword to spread their ideas, that is the whole point. I am able to admit it, why aren't you able to admit that Islam has spread by the same means?
I don't deny the holocaust, I don't hate Muslims, I never even said I was a Christian, my sympathies go out for the people of Palestine. You ask why America suports Israel. After 9/11 the Palestinians were celebrating in the streets over the murder of 3000 of my people. The Israelis were moring their death. Why would we choose the Palestinians as our allies when they pray and celebrate our deaths? It just wouldn't make sense.
Instead of focusing on so much hate, why not put all of that energy in positive means. The hate will only consume you.
Each one your posts is what confirms to me your religion brings no peace. You are angry, and bitter and have no inner peace in your life, and nobody can prove that point better than you are doing thank you.
I never denied that Christians haven't used the sword to spread their ideas, that is the whole point. I am able to admit it, why aren't you able to admit that Islam has spread by the same means?
I don't deny the holocaust, I don't hate Muslims, I never even said I was a Christian, my sympathies go out for the people of Palestine. You ask why America suports Israel. After 9/11 the Palestinians were celebrating in the streets over the murder of 3000 of my people. The Israelis were moring their death. Why would we choose the Palestinians as our allies when they pray and celebrate our deaths? It just wouldn't make sense.
Instead of focusing on so much hate, why not put all of that energy in positive means. The hate will only consume you.
2003-02-21
SIMO LHSAINI FROM MOROCCO said:
Most Arabs did not protest because they know that the war is against Saddam, Iraq, Islam, muslims and to strenghten "velnurable" Israel & to weaken "powerful" Palestinians and change can only come from within.
We know well that the American Congress or what we call in Arab lands the Jewish Congress with its 85% jews call the shots.
Watch Mr Fisk, we Arabs know that those millions that marched in different western countries will not change the minds of that son of a bucher. He is a christian fundamentalist from the Episcopalian church but remains a red neck with a violent psyche.
This crusader and the coallition of the Willing will wage war on Iraq regardless of protests. We Arabs know that our leaders are sold out and that most Americans love violence. It fulfill their empty souls.
Good Americans are a minority that is accused of
a lack of patriotism. Yes, the coallition of the willing to do evil on earth indeed is proud of its violent history.
How is it logical Mr Fisk to wonder why Arabs are not democratic when you know very well that our Arab leaders are hired to lead Arab countries simply because they are tyrans. You know that the US employs them to do its dirty work in the middle east and North Africa. You also know better than I that democracy in that region will give rise to islamic fundamentalism. You also know that the consequences will be detrimental to the livelihood of western emperilism.
You know that it will mean a ban on all islamically haram=prohibited foods, drinks and services etc.
We are talking thrillions of dollars loss to western economies and others. The islamist are going to bring dignity and respect to the middle east but the price is very high. Colonialism Part II if not World War III.
The axis of evil US/UK/Israel will not relinquish the thought of independant Arab economies. The orientalist mentality has dictated that Arabs and orientals alike cannot represent themselves; they need to be represented.
Salam,
We know well that the American Congress or what we call in Arab lands the Jewish Congress with its 85% jews call the shots.
Watch Mr Fisk, we Arabs know that those millions that marched in different western countries will not change the minds of that son of a bucher. He is a christian fundamentalist from the Episcopalian church but remains a red neck with a violent psyche.
This crusader and the coallition of the Willing will wage war on Iraq regardless of protests. We Arabs know that our leaders are sold out and that most Americans love violence. It fulfill their empty souls.
Good Americans are a minority that is accused of
a lack of patriotism. Yes, the coallition of the willing to do evil on earth indeed is proud of its violent history.
How is it logical Mr Fisk to wonder why Arabs are not democratic when you know very well that our Arab leaders are hired to lead Arab countries simply because they are tyrans. You know that the US employs them to do its dirty work in the middle east and North Africa. You also know better than I that democracy in that region will give rise to islamic fundamentalism. You also know that the consequences will be detrimental to the livelihood of western emperilism.
You know that it will mean a ban on all islamically haram=prohibited foods, drinks and services etc.
We are talking thrillions of dollars loss to western economies and others. The islamist are going to bring dignity and respect to the middle east but the price is very high. Colonialism Part II if not World War III.
The axis of evil US/UK/Israel will not relinquish the thought of independant Arab economies. The orientalist mentality has dictated that Arabs and orientals alike cannot represent themselves; they need to be represented.
Salam,
2003-02-21
MANJIT SINGH FROM INDIA said:
Yes, I am a sikh, whoes school friend was burnt alive in Kanpur in 1984 because he was a sikh before they killed his family as well. I know the pain and I live with it. I do also therfore have some understanding of the suffering in Gujarat. Hopefully India will grow up and we will beat this divisiveness.
I do wish to change the topic but clearly have issue with the writer who simply blames all muslim issues on India. Since 1947 Pakistani Army has killed more muslims than anybody else in the world. Why forget it? Why not ask the question? Why is the muslim Ummah silent?
India is our country and we will sort our problems but I again say Pakistani Army (all muslim) has killed more muslims on the Indian subcontinent since 1947 than any other single entity in the world.
When are we going to ask questions about 2 million muslims? Is question wrong? If it is Why?
Why 2 million muslims butchered alive in 1971 in Indian subcontinent not an issue? It is the second biggest holocaust since the second world war.
I do wish to change the topic but clearly have issue with the writer who simply blames all muslim issues on India. Since 1947 Pakistani Army has killed more muslims than anybody else in the world. Why forget it? Why not ask the question? Why is the muslim Ummah silent?
India is our country and we will sort our problems but I again say Pakistani Army (all muslim) has killed more muslims on the Indian subcontinent since 1947 than any other single entity in the world.
When are we going to ask questions about 2 million muslims? Is question wrong? If it is Why?
Why 2 million muslims butchered alive in 1971 in Indian subcontinent not an issue? It is the second biggest holocaust since the second world war.
2003-02-21
TIRED OF CHRISTIAN LIARS FROM USA said:
Hey "Mike Sampson"...right off the mill you distort what I've said. At what point did I express any sympathy for suicide bombing ? I didnt even mention it...but thats ok....I've dealt with your type before. Typical Christian fundamentalism at work. Speaking of which...why are you "christians" supporting Israel ? The same Israel which oppresses the descendents of Christ's disciples, the original people of the land, the Palestinians ? Oh yeah...its that Armageddon complex which you have going...
The article is about India, and what goes on there....problem is you have zero knowledge about India, its history and politics. Hell you dont even know your own history. Pick up a history book to find which religion was spread by the sword, it sure wasnt Islam. Sadly for you Islamic history is stronger than christian propoganda which only an deceitfull ignoramus would buy. What worries you about Islam, is that despite centuries of non-stop lies,propoganda, crusades and inquisitions, Islam is still going strong with millions of converts....many from Christian background, they were looking for real peace.
I'm not surprised, given how many Christians deny their own bloody past...we have many of you still denying that the holocaust ever occurred. So what if you commited the worst genocides in history right Mike ? And whats really pathetic is that despite these draconian efforts...christianity is dying.....atleast the phony European version of it. Good riddance.
The article is about India, and what goes on there....problem is you have zero knowledge about India, its history and politics. Hell you dont even know your own history. Pick up a history book to find which religion was spread by the sword, it sure wasnt Islam. Sadly for you Islamic history is stronger than christian propoganda which only an deceitfull ignoramus would buy. What worries you about Islam, is that despite centuries of non-stop lies,propoganda, crusades and inquisitions, Islam is still going strong with millions of converts....many from Christian background, they were looking for real peace.
I'm not surprised, given how many Christians deny their own bloody past...we have many of you still denying that the holocaust ever occurred. So what if you commited the worst genocides in history right Mike ? And whats really pathetic is that despite these draconian efforts...christianity is dying.....atleast the phony European version of it. Good riddance.
2003-02-21
ELUCIDATOR FROM CYPRUS said:
Mr Singh writes: "Please first seek justice on behalf of 2 million muslims of bangladesh and than 0.25 million muslims of Iraq."
It's very common in apologist circles to sidetrack issues and they excel in it. Just an example is seen everyday in Indian parliament. When congress talks about Tehelka expose against BJP members they at once try to bring in Bofors issue. When congress talks about Gujrat violence they at once relate Surat and Meerut violence. When Muslims talk about justice for innocents killed by active connivance of 'State government', they at once talk about 'Godhra' killings by 'Muslim' criminals. Since when did the issue of punishing criminals bacame subject to other precedences? The very first question asked by the writer here is: "Why is it that after one year of investigations, some of the major players who caused this genocide are still free?" To bring in the plight of Iraqi kurds or Bangladeshi is nothing but an attempt to deny justice and carry on with such pgroms in the future because all the criminals have gotten immunity from loot, rape and murders and since they know it, they are bound to repeat it....with people like Mr Manjit Singh doing the dirty work of defending the indefensible.( I hope you aren't a just using this Sikh mask to hide behind a Hindutva face).
Mr. Singh also mantains that "Indian democracy will take care of indian criminals." It has indeed. 113 Muslims caught and booked under POTA for Godhra conspiracy. Not a single Hindu for murdering 2000 Muslims in the genocide that followed. Indian Justice?? If you're indeed a Sikh, you know better for the state of our judiciary dealing with 1982 Anti Sikh riots. Why are you guys still crying for Justice?????
It's very common in apologist circles to sidetrack issues and they excel in it. Just an example is seen everyday in Indian parliament. When congress talks about Tehelka expose against BJP members they at once try to bring in Bofors issue. When congress talks about Gujrat violence they at once relate Surat and Meerut violence. When Muslims talk about justice for innocents killed by active connivance of 'State government', they at once talk about 'Godhra' killings by 'Muslim' criminals. Since when did the issue of punishing criminals bacame subject to other precedences? The very first question asked by the writer here is: "Why is it that after one year of investigations, some of the major players who caused this genocide are still free?" To bring in the plight of Iraqi kurds or Bangladeshi is nothing but an attempt to deny justice and carry on with such pgroms in the future because all the criminals have gotten immunity from loot, rape and murders and since they know it, they are bound to repeat it....with people like Mr Manjit Singh doing the dirty work of defending the indefensible.( I hope you aren't a just using this Sikh mask to hide behind a Hindutva face).
Mr. Singh also mantains that "Indian democracy will take care of indian criminals." It has indeed. 113 Muslims caught and booked under POTA for Godhra conspiracy. Not a single Hindu for murdering 2000 Muslims in the genocide that followed. Indian Justice?? If you're indeed a Sikh, you know better for the state of our judiciary dealing with 1982 Anti Sikh riots. Why are you guys still crying for Justice?????
2003-02-21
MANJIT SINGH FROM INDIA said:
Clearly this is a tragedy of proportions difficult to contemplate.
AND
So was the tragedy of burning hindus in the train.
I would also like the author to research and report on the other genocides committed against the muslims in the world. TWO COME TO MIND:
1) IN 1971 - 2 MILLION BANGLADESHI MUSLIMS WERE KILLED BY PAKISTANI ARMY. THIS IS THE THIRD LARGEST GENOCIDE IN HISTORY OF THE WORLD. SOME OF THE PAKISTANI OFFICERS ARE HEROES OF THE MULISM WORLD. NO WHERE ELSE IN MODERN HISTORY IN ALL WARS SO MANY MUSLIMS KILLED.
2) SADDAM HUSSIEN KILLED IN EXCESS OF 250,000 KURDS. THIS IS THE SECOND BIGGEST GENOCIDE OF MUSLIMS.
SO DEAR AUTHOR THE 2 BIGGEST GENOCIDES AGAINST MUSLIMS WERE COMMITTED BY MUSLIMS.
Please first seek jsutice on behalf of 2 million muslims of bangladesh and than 0.25 million muslims of Iraq.
Indian democracy will take care of indian criminals.
AND
So was the tragedy of burning hindus in the train.
I would also like the author to research and report on the other genocides committed against the muslims in the world. TWO COME TO MIND:
1) IN 1971 - 2 MILLION BANGLADESHI MUSLIMS WERE KILLED BY PAKISTANI ARMY. THIS IS THE THIRD LARGEST GENOCIDE IN HISTORY OF THE WORLD. SOME OF THE PAKISTANI OFFICERS ARE HEROES OF THE MULISM WORLD. NO WHERE ELSE IN MODERN HISTORY IN ALL WARS SO MANY MUSLIMS KILLED.
2) SADDAM HUSSIEN KILLED IN EXCESS OF 250,000 KURDS. THIS IS THE SECOND BIGGEST GENOCIDE OF MUSLIMS.
SO DEAR AUTHOR THE 2 BIGGEST GENOCIDES AGAINST MUSLIMS WERE COMMITTED BY MUSLIMS.
Please first seek jsutice on behalf of 2 million muslims of bangladesh and than 0.25 million muslims of Iraq.
Indian democracy will take care of indian criminals.
2003-02-21
HINDU MUSLIM BHAI BHAI-MAHATMA GANDHI FROM INDIA said:
First of all my deep sympathies to all the affected families both Muslims and Hindus. Please dont forget the fact that Hindu families were affected. It certainly is unfortunate. Coming to the article, Its always nice to present facts but please donot blow them out of proportions. There are few(substantial number) of evil minds eveywhere in the world. That does not imply that everyone is bad. If you can please educate people with facts. Do not hijack the readers mind with preconcieved notions of yours. It's my strong opinion that your article is increasing hatred and does provide any solution. Try to tell the readers something that will help increase communal harmony and reduce hatred.
2003-02-20
MIKE SAMPSON FROM U.S.A said:
Quote from "Tired of Christian liars"
"The tragedy is that these satanic zealots of the dying cross have nothing to do with the historical Jesus (pbuh), and he will reject them fully upon his return. "
This sentiment is exactly what gives me that uneasy feeling about Islam, people that follow it always seem to espouse such vitriolic statements. People always say Islam is a religion of peace, but then they follow it with statements like this, or use Islam in the defense of suicide bombings or kiiling innocent people. Why is there so much anger within those who follow Islam, if a religion doesn't bring internal peace and contentment, and you're still bitter and angry and lashing out at those who have different views, what is it good for?
The killing of Muslims is wrong in India, however this article does seem to give a one sided view of the situation. Didn't Muslims set hundreds of people on fire inside a train prior to this happening. And many Hindus were also killed during these riots not just Muslims. That's the facts, it wasn't like Muslims were just sitting around loving their neighbors the Hindus, when the Hindus began butchering them. Muslims burned people alive on a train woman and children, take a little responsibily, people on this board act like a Muslim can never commit any evil. Here's a news flash, you DO! all the time Muslims are killing people across the globe, they're oppressing people different than themselves by the thoudands. To completely deny this is dilluding yourselves.
And about the crusades how did Islam spread into Spain, by the sword so don't try to take the moral high ground like Islam has never used violence to further its cause.
I also find it interesting that many of the statements about Zionist running the world and all. We have groups in America that say the same thing, they call it ZOG (Zionist Occupied Government). They live in the woods and typically have 3rd grade educations, and are extremely racist
"The tragedy is that these satanic zealots of the dying cross have nothing to do with the historical Jesus (pbuh), and he will reject them fully upon his return. "
This sentiment is exactly what gives me that uneasy feeling about Islam, people that follow it always seem to espouse such vitriolic statements. People always say Islam is a religion of peace, but then they follow it with statements like this, or use Islam in the defense of suicide bombings or kiiling innocent people. Why is there so much anger within those who follow Islam, if a religion doesn't bring internal peace and contentment, and you're still bitter and angry and lashing out at those who have different views, what is it good for?
The killing of Muslims is wrong in India, however this article does seem to give a one sided view of the situation. Didn't Muslims set hundreds of people on fire inside a train prior to this happening. And many Hindus were also killed during these riots not just Muslims. That's the facts, it wasn't like Muslims were just sitting around loving their neighbors the Hindus, when the Hindus began butchering them. Muslims burned people alive on a train woman and children, take a little responsibily, people on this board act like a Muslim can never commit any evil. Here's a news flash, you DO! all the time Muslims are killing people across the globe, they're oppressing people different than themselves by the thoudands. To completely deny this is dilluding yourselves.
And about the crusades how did Islam spread into Spain, by the sword so don't try to take the moral high ground like Islam has never used violence to further its cause.
I also find it interesting that many of the statements about Zionist running the world and all. We have groups in America that say the same thing, they call it ZOG (Zionist Occupied Government). They live in the woods and typically have 3rd grade educations, and are extremely racist
2003-02-20
AMIN FROM USA said:
Mr. Hale
I believe we currently have thosands of troops in conjunction with France Germany and Britain in Kosovo. These troops come from the Army Marines and Air force. Currently I know part of 1 ID is there, of course you probably knew that didn't You?
I believe we currently have thosands of troops in conjunction with France Germany and Britain in Kosovo. These troops come from the Army Marines and Air force. Currently I know part of 1 ID is there, of course you probably knew that didn't You?
2003-02-20
AMIN FROM USA said:
Abdur Razzaq,
I read that article as you requested and would love to know why Allah deemed it necessary to state clearly that:
"On the Yoom Deen, Christian Jews and Sabians who did good works have nothing to fear ", (noting that past tense is clearly used referring to the situation of the judgement day if you read the exact Arabic, and not to the past tense at the time of the revelation)
and also make it necessary for us to read two page commentaries from people born hundreds of years after the revelation of the Quran as to why this statement neither means nor translates what it says in the most plain Arabic accurately from Allah.
I'm glad Allah has decided to choose spokesmen from long after the Quran to explain what any passage means since Allah must have been mistaken when he said it the way he did the first time.
I apologize to Allah for my sarcasim on his behalf, but it seemed the only way to convince these people that these hateful bigotted opnions about our brothers in Allah's worship the Christians and the Jews are inaccurate and the products of warped Wahabi tribalist minds, products spread by oil money missionaries and reinterpretation of the Quran to suit modern political desires.
I read that article as you requested and would love to know why Allah deemed it necessary to state clearly that:
"On the Yoom Deen, Christian Jews and Sabians who did good works have nothing to fear ", (noting that past tense is clearly used referring to the situation of the judgement day if you read the exact Arabic, and not to the past tense at the time of the revelation)
and also make it necessary for us to read two page commentaries from people born hundreds of years after the revelation of the Quran as to why this statement neither means nor translates what it says in the most plain Arabic accurately from Allah.
I'm glad Allah has decided to choose spokesmen from long after the Quran to explain what any passage means since Allah must have been mistaken when he said it the way he did the first time.
I apologize to Allah for my sarcasim on his behalf, but it seemed the only way to convince these people that these hateful bigotted opnions about our brothers in Allah's worship the Christians and the Jews are inaccurate and the products of warped Wahabi tribalist minds, products spread by oil money missionaries and reinterpretation of the Quran to suit modern political desires.
2003-02-20
MARAIKAYER FROM USA said:
Assalamu Alaikum
Allah will not bring change until we change ourselves.
We Muslims betray each other and assist, abet evil people. Look what is happening now in Arab world. Arab impotents are assisting these war mongers to wage war against Iraq.
Until and unless muslims change themselves, Allah will never bring change or give victory to Muslims.
Allah will not bring change until we change ourselves.
We Muslims betray each other and assist, abet evil people. Look what is happening now in Arab world. Arab impotents are assisting these war mongers to wage war against Iraq.
Until and unless muslims change themselves, Allah will never bring change or give victory to Muslims.
2003-02-20
ABDUR RAZZAQ FROM USA said:
Again I will try to deal with the issue of Jews and Christians entering Paradise. I will pont those interested to the opinions of the ulama past and present:
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=2912&dgn=3
and
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=9488&dgn=3
I hope this helps in the understanding of this issue.
As salaamu alaikum
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=2912&dgn=3
and
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=browse&QR=9488&dgn=3
I hope this helps in the understanding of this issue.
As salaamu alaikum
2003-02-20
MIKE HALE FROM USA said:
The United States gets vilified with every thing we do. If we started a conflict with India and talked of invasion the Muslim community would jump up and down screaming that the US should mind its own business. I personally have lost thousands of dollars because of a business I invested in moved to India recently (I2 Corp).
Maybe India needs more News coverage to show these atrocities.
Amin - please correct me if I am wrong, but did the US not go to Kosovo to stop genocide of Muslims? And I believe we still have troops in that region.
Peace
Maybe India needs more News coverage to show these atrocities.
Amin - please correct me if I am wrong, but did the US not go to Kosovo to stop genocide of Muslims? And I believe we still have troops in that region.
Peace
2003-02-20
MARCUS FROM GERMANY/AUSTRALIA said:
Really tragic all the killing ... I'm getting very tired of it. Why can't people just get along and forgive each other. I admit I have never been touched by war or famine or persecution, and am a Christian.
Instead of hating another person, lets forgive. More wars only breed more hate and violence. In the end the whole world is hateful and destroyed. Forgiveness and love is the answer.
Instead of hating another person, lets forgive. More wars only breed more hate and violence. In the end the whole world is hateful and destroyed. Forgiveness and love is the answer.
2003-02-20
NIKHATH FATHIMA FROM CANADA said:
Dr.Aslam Abdullah has brought to the forefront what we seem to have pushed to the back of our agenda, what with the iraq war and crazy american hype.
Eloquent and concise, this article shows the author's complte grasp of the language as well as the situation.
Eloquent and concise, this article shows the author's complte grasp of the language as well as the situation.
2003-02-20
MIR RUWAID ANWAR FROM BANGLADESH said:
i am really sorry to read your comment that christians are being oppressed by the muslims particularly in the gulf. you mentioned names of some countries such as U.A.E, well brother,let me tell you how christians are being 'oppressed' in the U.A.E, as i have been staying in this country for 17 years, i know a lot about it. when one goes to pay their telephone bill in a telecommunication centre, the difference between him the employee, is some 30-50 men, but when a western, steps in, he doesn't has to go through all that trouble, why to waste time, he is taken right in front of the line, pays his bill and goes out. now, this is the 'ill treatment', certainly i don't mind if i am given this kind of ill treatment. islam commands us that if non muslims has to stay in muslim lands they have to obey islamic rules and regulation, for eg, the woman need to cover their body and no indecent exposure will be allowed, but what do i see here, they can wear whatever they want to, tight skimpy clothes, filthy exposing dresses, so where is the oppression, i dont see the western countries giving eid holidays, even india, where a working muslim is not given time to break his fast in the month of ramadan giving eid holidays,the christians get their christmas holiday over here.and they are treated as first class citizens, much better than muslims or even the arabs. so the case of oppression is totally out of question. and by the way, you people are no saints, as much as we have bad muslims, u have bad christians, who was hitler a christian, who was mussolini, a christian, why dont you talk about them man.
2003-02-20
FOR FEDUPS FROM CYPRUS said:
Arundhati Roy, A sensible Indian Hindu columnist has spoken thus in one of her speeches recently: "Last March, in the state of Gujarat, two thousand Muslims were butchered in a State-sponsored pogrom. Muslim women were specially targeted. They were stripped, and gang-raped, before being burned alive. Arsonists burned and looted shops, homes, textiles mills, and mosques. More than a hundred and fifty thousand Muslims have been driven from their homes. The economic base of the Muslim community has been devastated. While Gujarat burned, the Indian Prime Minister was on MTV promoting his new poems. In January this year, the Government that orchestrated the killing was voted back into office with a comfortable majority. Nobody has been punished for the genocide. Narendra Modi, architect of the pogrom, proud member of the RSS, has embarked on his second term as the Chief Minister of Gujarat. If he were Saddam Hussein, of course each atrocity would have been on CNN. But since he's not -- and since the Indian "market" is open to global investors -- the massacre is not even an embarrassing inconvenience. "
Till date 113 Muslims have been boocked under draconian Anti terror laws for putting train on fire and not a single Hindu has been booked for massacring thousands of Muslims in a massively pre-planned genocide afterwards.
There are more than one hundred million Muslims in India. A time bomb is ticking in our ancient land.
For people like Fedups, a look at this article might help:
Killing Kaafirs- The Koranic way:
http://www.guidedones.com/issues/regions/world/kaafirs.htm
Thank you Islamicity, for highlighting the Plight of Indian Muslims who do not have money or means to leave their homeland to perfomr Hijra just as Israel asks all Muslims nations to take in palestinians, Indian fascist Hindus too are asking 59 Islamic countries to grant refugee status to 150 Million Indian Muslims and escape annihilation. Is this feasible Mr. Nadeem - Comment
Till date 113 Muslims have been boocked under draconian Anti terror laws for putting train on fire and not a single Hindu has been booked for massacring thousands of Muslims in a massively pre-planned genocide afterwards.
There are more than one hundred million Muslims in India. A time bomb is ticking in our ancient land.
For people like Fedups, a look at this article might help:
Killing Kaafirs- The Koranic way:
http://www.guidedones.com/issues/regions/world/kaafirs.htm
Thank you Islamicity, for highlighting the Plight of Indian Muslims who do not have money or means to leave their homeland to perfomr Hijra just as Israel asks all Muslims nations to take in palestinians, Indian fascist Hindus too are asking 59 Islamic countries to grant refugee status to 150 Million Indian Muslims and escape annihilation. Is this feasible Mr. Nadeem - Comment
2003-02-20
TIRED OF CHRISTIAN LIARS FROM USA said:
fedup's problem is that Christianity is dying. If the joker knew any history he would know that Christianity survived in the East due to the intervention of Muslims against bloodthirsty European Christians rampaging across the world.
If even half the lies Christians spoke about Islam were true....they would be Muslims themselves. Christians have taken their blood tainted past and present that as Muslim history.
Crimes against Christianity ? What a crock of self-victimhood that is......given that these same type of Christians brought us the Crusades, Inquisation, Imperialism and the "Armageddon" from their extreme interpreatation of the Book of Revelations. They are terrorists pure and simple.
The tragedy is that these satanic zealots of the dying cross have nothing to do with the historical Jesus (pbuh), and he will reject them fully upon his return.
If even half the lies Christians spoke about Islam were true....they would be Muslims themselves. Christians have taken their blood tainted past and present that as Muslim history.
Crimes against Christianity ? What a crock of self-victimhood that is......given that these same type of Christians brought us the Crusades, Inquisation, Imperialism and the "Armageddon" from their extreme interpreatation of the Book of Revelations. They are terrorists pure and simple.
The tragedy is that these satanic zealots of the dying cross have nothing to do with the historical Jesus (pbuh), and he will reject them fully upon his return.
2003-02-20
AMIN FROM USA said:
Fed Up
your examples are foolish at best.
Some our true and they are condemned, and by the way they post everything here without bad language.
I guess one groups killings invalidates murder commited on that group? I guess the crusade3s, and bosnia, invalidate Christian suffering?
As far as Saudi Arabia opressing Christians from 3rd world countries... Where did you get that? Pat Robertson the devil's minion?
The same Saudi "Sheikhs" as you call them abuse Muslim and Hindu servants too. I know from my families own experience
your examples are foolish at best.
Some our true and they are condemned, and by the way they post everything here without bad language.
I guess one groups killings invalidates murder commited on that group? I guess the crusade3s, and bosnia, invalidate Christian suffering?
As far as Saudi Arabia opressing Christians from 3rd world countries... Where did you get that? Pat Robertson the devil's minion?
The same Saudi "Sheikhs" as you call them abuse Muslim and Hindu servants too. I know from my families own experience
2003-02-20
SYED IRFAN AHMED FROM INDIA said:
Thanx for bringing this to the light of the whole world. I don't know what the muslim world is doing. Please put narendra modi on trial in the internation court of justice.
2003-02-20
MOKADDES KHAN FROM USA said:
This commentary is aimed at FedUp.
If you do a survey, you will definitely find that there are more Muslims under oppression in the world then there are Christians. But it is true. There are Christians being oppressed in different parts of the World. A lot of them in so-called Muslim countries. However, I will ask you to show proof of every country you mentioned. I am one who has lived in the Middle East and I can say that there is no "murder and rape" of Christians over there.(At least not for their religious beliefs)Christians not only have their own Churches, but regularly get Sundays off to attend them. Nigeria, Sudan, Somalia are cases of Civil Wars. Muslims are being killed and Maimed along with Christians. In Pakistan the bombings of churches is a recent phenomenon, however one deserving of condemnation. As for Palestine, it is probablythe IDF doing the Christian killings.
And lets not forget India here. It is not only Muslims who get killed and raped, but the Christians also. DO not forget the incidents a couple of years ago when the Hindu Shiv Sena set fire to a Christian priest and two little girls and of course the many others they proceeded to kill.
But you probably wont here of this in your Church. Because India after all is a big market for you all. And perhaps it plays well with you to vilify and paint all Muslims with a broad brush. Somehow it seems to give you all the excuse you need to rain down your WMDs on innocent Muslims all over the World from Israel to India.
There is no denying that Christian minorities do get oppressed in a lot of places. Unfortunately bigots are born into every nation. However, you will be hard put to find any group on Earth who are a victim of State sponsored terrorism(just like in India, in Palestine, in Chechnya, in Algeria and the list goes on)as the Muslims are. It seems that if a few people in other countries die, it is a tragedy. But when a few thousand Muslims die it is just a statistic.
If you do a survey, you will definitely find that there are more Muslims under oppression in the world then there are Christians. But it is true. There are Christians being oppressed in different parts of the World. A lot of them in so-called Muslim countries. However, I will ask you to show proof of every country you mentioned. I am one who has lived in the Middle East and I can say that there is no "murder and rape" of Christians over there.(At least not for their religious beliefs)Christians not only have their own Churches, but regularly get Sundays off to attend them. Nigeria, Sudan, Somalia are cases of Civil Wars. Muslims are being killed and Maimed along with Christians. In Pakistan the bombings of churches is a recent phenomenon, however one deserving of condemnation. As for Palestine, it is probablythe IDF doing the Christian killings.
And lets not forget India here. It is not only Muslims who get killed and raped, but the Christians also. DO not forget the incidents a couple of years ago when the Hindu Shiv Sena set fire to a Christian priest and two little girls and of course the many others they proceeded to kill.
But you probably wont here of this in your Church. Because India after all is a big market for you all. And perhaps it plays well with you to vilify and paint all Muslims with a broad brush. Somehow it seems to give you all the excuse you need to rain down your WMDs on innocent Muslims all over the World from Israel to India.
There is no denying that Christian minorities do get oppressed in a lot of places. Unfortunately bigots are born into every nation. However, you will be hard put to find any group on Earth who are a victim of State sponsored terrorism(just like in India, in Palestine, in Chechnya, in Algeria and the list goes on)as the Muslims are. It seems that if a few people in other countries die, it is a tragedy. But when a few thousand Muslims die it is just a statistic.
2003-02-20
FEDUP FROM USA said:
Why is it that all Muslims never condemn the crimes against Christianity? Let's talk about Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, UAE, Indonesia, Sudan, Somalia, Nigeria, Palestine etc. where so many Christians are being ill-treated. So many Christians are being killed, maimed, tortured and raped. Lets talk about rich muslim sheiks who are ill-treating their servants from the 3rd world countries. Will a Muslim even admit this violence? So many of these innocent Christians are being killed and murdered by violent Muslims. I don't condone violence against any religion, but being a Christian I would like to see Muslims condemn violence against us as well. Of course my article is going to be screened and removed. So much for the freedom that all Muslims are asking for. If you people are truly peaceful and stand for equality, why don't you post my article as is?
2003-02-19
KHALID KHAN FROM USA said:
Another Genocide Remembered
2/19/2003 - Political - Article
By: Dr. Aslam Abdullah
Well written and vary informative artical.Muslims all over India are subject to similar atrocities. It is time that international community start taking a close look at that state sponsered terrorism.
2/19/2003 - Political - Article
By: Dr. Aslam Abdullah
Well written and vary informative artical.Muslims all over India are subject to similar atrocities. It is time that international community start taking a close look at that state sponsered terrorism.
2003-02-19
RIYAZ FROM INDIA said:
In the name of allah most beneficient most mercifull.
Allah can make a complete change in a moment.
Allah can make a complete change in a moment.
2003-02-19
TARIQ FROM US said:
la ilaha illallah
truly we are in a sad and demeaning times that are brothers and sisters are being killed and raped and yet we dont nothing about it. the muslim ummah is in a terrible state.
assalamu alaykum
truly we are in a sad and demeaning times that are brothers and sisters are being killed and raped and yet we dont nothing about it. the muslim ummah is in a terrible state.
assalamu alaykum
2003-02-19
AYESHA FROM BAHAMAS said:
I think hindus and muslims never live peacefully and happily in the same country,India need to be seperated again so that another MUSLIM NATION will BE CREATED.MUSLIMS ARE ALWAYS DISCREMINATED IN MANY WAYS IN INDIA. THIS IS VERY VERY UNFAIR.
All the problems are created by the British rulers.Is it possible for the British to do justice in this case?
All the problems are created by the British rulers.Is it possible for the British to do justice in this case?
2003-02-19
AMIN FROM USA said:
Israel is a side show compared to India.
Look at your history and at even the moth liberal deathtolls of Muslims in Israel, and the most conservative figures in India.
Just take a look and don't be suprised.
Why are Palestinians in their minor death tolls, more important than Indian Muslims?
It really is a good question don't you think?
Look at your history and at even the moth liberal deathtolls of Muslims in Israel, and the most conservative figures in India.
Just take a look and don't be suprised.
Why are Palestinians in their minor death tolls, more important than Indian Muslims?
It really is a good question don't you think?
2003-02-19
SALLEHUDDIN FROM UNKNOWN said:
Terrorist against Islam and Muslims indeed, 2nd after Isreal , may Allah curses them . India is number one terrorist , India try to exposed itself democratically to the world and encourage investments , that would not gain any supports from Muslims country & other country bcause its harted towards Muslims , India's human rights record is very bad & abusive , India will remained isolated and poor & hindu fanatics is no good to the country bcause they remained in a hinderance to country progress . Look at China , they had progressed and all international investments are pouring in , even India 2nd largest population in the world were at the bottom of the Olympics champions in 1998 sydney ,,ashamed!!
2003-02-19
AMIN FROM USA said:
terrorism is one thing genocide is another,
get it straight.
If they killed these Muslims to influence others through fear (terror, thus TERRORism) to do the things way they want than that is terrorism,
If they did it from basic hate and desire to wipe them out than that is Genocide.
If we are going to use the English language we need to understand the difference between certain key terms like "Genocide" "terrorism" and "unacceptable levels of collateral damage"
The US has no requirement to stick up for these people, the US is in a war on terrorism not Genocide, and as we all know terrorists are worse than Hitler, right zonists?
There is a hint of sarcasim in these comments Just so you know
get it straight.
If they killed these Muslims to influence others through fear (terror, thus TERRORism) to do the things way they want than that is terrorism,
If they did it from basic hate and desire to wipe them out than that is Genocide.
If we are going to use the English language we need to understand the difference between certain key terms like "Genocide" "terrorism" and "unacceptable levels of collateral damage"
The US has no requirement to stick up for these people, the US is in a war on terrorism not Genocide, and as we all know terrorists are worse than Hitler, right zonists?
There is a hint of sarcasim in these comments Just so you know
2003-02-19
NADEEM FROM INDIA said:
indeed it was a sad and horrifying event in the annals of indian history
the prophet has very clearly said " those who do not do hijra for the sake of their relegion and continue to stay in kuffar lands , i HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM" there are many verses in the quran , which say if ur being oppressed , leave to muslim lands , rather then be persecuted , allah has promised us provisions forthose who take the initiative to do hijra
when the people deviate from the sunnah . shirk and bidah are the order of the day ,then allah will take the people to task
the prophet has very clearly said " those who do not do hijra for the sake of their relegion and continue to stay in kuffar lands , i HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM" there are many verses in the quran , which say if ur being oppressed , leave to muslim lands , rather then be persecuted , allah has promised us provisions forthose who take the initiative to do hijra
when the people deviate from the sunnah . shirk and bidah are the order of the day ,then allah will take the people to task
2003-02-19
