IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General > Science & Technology
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - universe shaped like a trumpet  What is Islam What is Islam  Donate Donate
  FAQ FAQ  Quran Search Quran Search  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

universe shaped like a trumpet

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
icforumadmin View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 15 February 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1056
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icforumadmin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: universe shaped like a trumpet
    Posted: 04 April 2005 at 11:41pm

Now they say it is shaped like a trumpet
By: Charles Arthur
Independent* -

At first they thought it was flat. Then that it was shaped like a football. But now, scientists believe the universe could be shaped like a flat-sided trumpet.

That would lead to strange effects in some parts of the universe, where time and light would be so curved that you could see the back of your own head. Also, a long-held theory about the universe - that it looks much the same anywhere - would have to be abandoned. And finally, the universe would be finite, rather than extending in every direction forever.

The new shape, predicted by careful mathematical modeling to fit with known astronomical data, would have the universe stretched out into a long funnel, flaring into a bell-like shape at one end. The thin end would be infinitely long - but so narrow that it would have a finite volume.

The "bell" of the trumpet would also be peculiar: it would flare out, but a spaceship that could somehow navigate towards the open end would eventually find itself flying back along the "outside surface" of the bell.

The research by a team of German physicists led by Frank Steiner at the University of Ulm is reported in New Scientist magazine.

Their theory uses a complex mathematical model called a "Picard topology", named after a mathematician rather than the Star Trek character. It would mean the universe has a finite volume, although you would not be aware of its "edges"; they would seem to be part of the rest of space.

The concept follows a close examination of the dramatic data produced by Nasa, the US space agency, in 1996, which showed that the very faint microwave radiation left over from the Big Bang 13 billion years ago was not evenly spread throughout the cosmos. This lack of evenness - called "anisotropy" - suggested that large-scale models of the shape of the universe, previously thought to be a flat expanse of space-time, were wrong.

Ever since then, cosmologists have puzzled over what the data from the Cosmic Background Explorer (Cobe) spacecraft could tell them about the space-time "shape" of the universe. One rival group proposed last year that the universe was shaped instead like a football. But that would have left a particular pattern of background radiation - which has not been found by further experiments.

In the "flat" space of conventional cosmology, small "blobs" - hot and cold spots - in background radiation should be round. But observations show that instead they are ellipses. The curve of a horn-shaped universe can explain this, says Professor Steiner.

The "space" in any small part of the "horn" is saddle-shaped, like a Pringles potato crisp. Such a "negatively curved" space would act as a warped lens, distorting the image around the blobs so they look elliptical to astronomers.

Another property of a "trumpet" universe would be that large blobs more than about 60 degrees across would be absent. So far, scientists have also found this to be the case.

But if the team at Ulm is right, scientists will have to abandon one of the fundamental tenets of cosmology - that all parts of the cosmos are about the same. Holger Then, a member of Professor Steiner's team, told New Scientist: "If one happens to find oneself a long way up the narrow end of the horn, things indeed look very strange, with two very small dimensions."

At an extreme enough point, you would be able to see the back of your own head. Over the next year or so, astronomers will test whether large blobs really are lacking in cosmic microwave background radiation and small ones really are elliptical.

 

Source: The Independent 


Additional References:

Big Bang glow hints at funnel-shaped Universe 

Additional IslamiCity Notes:

When we see scientific discoveries through the prism of the Quran it helps us in understanding the complexity and awe-inspiring nature of creation. Scientific discoveries are evolutionary, at the same time our belief is that God has sent down the Quran for all ages. As we acquire new knowledge our understanding of creation and how we see them in light of the Quran will transform.

It is interesting to note the following Quranic verses in light of the above discovery about the cosmos.

It is He (God) who created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): the day He said, "Be," behold! it is. His word is the truth. His will be the dominion the day the trumpet will be blown. He knows the unseen as well as that which is open. For He is the Wise, well acquainted (with all things)
Quran 6:73

The trumpet will (just) be sounded, when all that are in the heavens and on earth will swoon, except such as it will please Allah (to exempt)...
Quran: 39:68

Visit IslamiCity Islam & Science Center

Back to Top
Fuhad View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: 18 March 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 24
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fuhad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 April 2005 at 10:57am

 

The main concern here is that Muslims should resist the temptation of corroborating new scientific findings with their traditions ( Koran and the rest !). Due to the impermanance of the scientific knowledge, at any moment the long-held hypothesis (to which many belivers would like to cling as a proof of their beliefs!) can be contradicted with the availability of new evidence.

I presume Muslims will have tough time in finding �details� in their tradition of the latest " will be discovered" data from one of the moons of Saturn. As far as I know Quran does not talk about evidence of life on Mars and Saturn specifically! ( note: the Quran is silent on certain issues, this does not mean anything new contradicts it!)

Regards

Fuhad

 

Back to Top
nadir View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 22 March 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nadir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2005 at 10:34am

Assalaamu Alaikum

Fuhad

Just to pick up on your point�The main concern here is that Muslims should resist the temptation of corroborating new scientific findings with their traditions (Koran and the rest !). Due to the impermanance of the scientific knowledge, at any moment the long-held hypothesis (to which many belivers would like to cling as a proof of their beliefs!) can be contradicted with the availability of new evidence.�

A scientific finding should be, by its very essence � fact, if it is not then how can it be justified as science (or evidence).

 

I say this in the light of the techniques, science, is a slave of. A scientific explanation/fact is (basically) not a fact, unless another person can copy the initial experiment/findings and arrive at the very same conclusion/findings. And even then, if scientists do not know how �physical laws� are governed, they only posses a shallow type of knowledge (ie worldly).

 

This trumpet article is nonsense, and is not evidence, nor scientific!

 

Rather another means to trap unsuspecting and innocent people within the web of illusion.

 

 

I would like to comment more on this issue, but I think it may prove a convenient way to help people whose intentions I do not trust.

 

 

Wasalaam

 

nadir 

 

 

Back to Top
kim! View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar
Joined: 17 September 2001
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 2390
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kim! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2005 at 10:03pm

Awww - can't the universe be evidence of God "Blowing His Own Trumpet"?  

Kim...

Back to Top
nadir View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 22 March 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nadir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2005 at 9:25am
Originally posted by kim! kim! wrote:

Awww - can't the universe be evidence of God "Blowing His Own Trumpet"?  

Kim...

Assalaamu Alaikum

Kim

 

Alhamdulilah

 

 

 

Wow!!! It could be!!!!!

 

Well as long as you don�t mind believing those who �clutch at straws�. 

 

 

Allah (SWT) is far more Majestic than they will ever perceive, far more Majestic than they will ever give Him credit for, Glorified is He above all that they associate in partner with Him.

 

 

OK, lets see where this journey leads, how about picking me a Muslim name so that I might know you a little better, I promise to be gentle in my reply, if you choose to do so�..

 

 

Insha Allah

 

Wasalaam

 

Nadir Talib

(rare seeker [of truth])

  

 

Back to Top
kim! View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar
Joined: 17 September 2001
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 2390
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kim! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 April 2005 at 5:24pm

Hi, I don't understand why you seem to think I need to choose a Muslim name for you, since you seem to have a perfectly good one already.  

I think I am a bit of a strange creature sometimes - I have no problems believing that God, the Big Bang theory, the "weird shape of the universe theory" and the theory of evolution all exist at once.

Faith in God appears to be worthless unless it is given freely. ie: people have freedom of choice in their lives. I hate to sound like a fence-sitter, but it occurs to me that God may actually have given humans to right and the ability to make choices, for right or wrong, and the Big Challenge might be that despite all the bad choices and the bad things that happen in the world, that people Find God anyway. Freely and through their own choices. If God is omnipotent and All-seeing, then God has the ability to let us make our own choices and He can see all the different consequences and knows what will happen to us anyway.

Now, admittedly, I have grown up believing the theory of evolution all my life, so I am biased of course, but I really believe that if God exists, He gave the universe the basic building blocks, then let the whole thing develop and evolve over billions of (our) years. SO much more interesting than just clicking His fingers and making everything just "appear" out of nothing. Stuff _still_ appeared out of nothing, of course, but with the invention of a few parameters like the laws of physics, everything else developed.

Is that just a terrible thing? As far as I can see, the more scientists discover, the more things we have to marvel at and go "wow - look how amazing God is!"

Kim...

Back to Top
nadir View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 22 March 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nadir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2005 at 12:51pm

 

Assalaamu alaikum

 

 

 

Sorry Kim , you misunderstood me, I wanted you to pick a Muslim name for yourself, so that I might know your personality a little better�..

 

 

Just to pick up on a point you make, I think the thing is about humans making choices is that, if those choices are made without any moral obligation (to God), others may be hurt by the choices made. Hence do you not think that it would be better if people ended up finding God, but through others help, rather than their hindrance (or a bit of both)?

 

Billions of years sounds a lot, but you might want to take into consideration, the fact that Allah (SWT) Created Time, and hence He is beyond - Time & No Time. Hence the concept of Creating and then letting everything just happen is a bit iffy, as if time exists only within Allah�s Creation, and not the place where He dwells, then in the place He dwells everything has already happened (sorry I am already feeling this is going to baffle your intellect, hence see if you are able to reflect upon these words in the place of non-intellect).

 

I agree that it is good to marvel over Allah�s (SWT) creation, however I hope you realise that peoples intentions can be very obscure.

 

 

Wasalaam

nadir

 

Back to Top
kim! View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar
Joined: 17 September 2001
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 2390
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kim! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2005 at 4:53pm

Hi All, Nadir posted the above reply to me personally, too, so I sent him a reply. Now I will share it with you, too.  :)

 

-- Previous Private Message --
Sent by : nadir
Sent : 2005 05 May at 6:53am

 

Assalaamu alaikum

Sorry Kim , you misunderstood me, I wanted you to pick a Muslim name for yourself, so that I might know your personality a little better�..

Just to pick up on a point you make, I think the thing is about humans making choices is that, if those choices are made without any moral obligation (to God), others may be hurt by the choices made.

 

<kim> Yes, but that's just the point. We have to learn to make choices that _don't_ hurt others and the "others" have to learn to cope with life in a positive and fulfulling way even if they _are_ hurt. Do you see what I mean? We ALL have to make choices and I believe we make them freely. If we are all just robots with no choice then A) what is religion for anyway? God already knows what we are going to do because we never had any choice in the first place, and B) how can he punish us for ANYTHING AT ALL if we have no free will or choice?

 

 Hence do you not think that it would be better if people ended up finding God, but through others help, rather than their hindrance (or a bit of both)?

 

<kim> Both.

 

Billions of years sounds a lot, but you might want to take into consideration, the fact that Allah (SWT) Created Time, and hence He is beyond - Time & No Time. Hence the concept of Creating and then letting everything just happen is a bit iffy, as if time exists only within Allah�s Creation, and not the place where He dwells, then in the place He dwells everything has already happened (sorry I am already feeling this is going to baffle your intellect, hence see if you are able to reflect upon these words in the place of non-intellect).

 

 

<kim> Oi! Are you calling me stupid? I can fully understand if God is beyond time and space and whatever - he'd have been pretty bored if he had experience time in Real Time, I'm sure! But God has to set up time for humans in order that everything doesn't happen all at once ;) And he knows we need time to learn and to, well, just exist!

 

 

I agree that it is good to marvel over Allah�s (SWT) creation, however I hope you realise that peoples intentions can be very obscure.

 

<kim> Yes, but again, I think that's the point. We all have to learn to live with each other, even if we don't understand everything and everyone.

 

Kim...

 

 

 

 

Wasalaam

nadir

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.