AnnieTwo: I do not wish to spoil

the Jesus, Paul and Women thread but wish to ask you here, the following:

You wrote to Cassandra:"Read everything, think, meditate, decide how it affects you, and then you are in a position to criticise.  That's a motto of mine - I do try to make it work." followed by "Don't stop thinking."

I have never stopped thinking and I read everything, even the fine print, I meditate and think about the words, etc and then I get ready to criticise. That was a good advice to her, I like it.

Could you please explain the following contradiction  in the NT when Jesus is arrested? Only John gives this narrative, the other three don't:

18:6When Jesus said, "I am he", they drew back and fell to the ground.

What happened, what did they see that made them fall down? Was there any transfiguration of his face? Keep in mind that the other three writers did not know about this at all.

Next comes18:8"I told you that I am he," Jesus answered. "If you are looking for me, then let these men go." 9This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled:"I have not lost one of those you gave me."

Before this he had already lost Judas. Immediately after this he had already lost Simon Peter who disowned him three times verified by the cock crowing. He had also lost the doubting Thomas. How was 9 fulfilled?

 

 

 

Commentary on John 18:6-7 adds no facts but does add many opinions.  Either the soldiers were struck down by the majesty of God, by the power of their own conscience, or by Jesus' calm and commanding manner in the face of arrest.

John 18:8-9 refers to Jesus submitting voluntarily under the condition that none of his followers were to be arrested.  As this came directly after the forced prostration of the soldiers, it clearly shows Jesus willingly gave himself up and was not forcibly arrested.  The "loss" refers to the physical safety not any lack of faith on the part of the Apostles.

Annie wrote:

"Jesus' effect on people was astounding.  I think just looking into his eyes could make one weak in the knees."

But this is not true.

John did not recognise Jesus and had to be told who he was: John 1:33 I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.'

Isaiah states that there was nothing unusual or even beautiful about Jesus: Isaiah 53:2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

And we all know that jesus was so indistinguishable from his followers that Judas had to point him out to those who came to arrest him: Matthew 26:47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people.    26:48 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: "The one I kiss is the man; arrest him."    26:49 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, "Greetings, Rabbi!" and kissed him

Edited by Mishmish

Annie:

If you are speaking of his inward appearance, then what did they see that made them fall to the ground?

"18:6When Jesus said, "I am he", they drew back and fell to the ground.

What happened, what did they see that made them fall down? Was there any transfiguration of his face? Keep in mind that the other three writers did not know about this at all."

You wrote:

"John has already testified to the effect of Jesus' words on temple officials sent to arrest him (see John 7:45-46).  It is not at all unlikely that some of the same personnel are again involved.  If they have been awed by Jesus before, if they have been dumbfounded by his teaching, his authority, his directness in the full light of day in the precincts of the temple where they most feel at home, it is not hard to believe that they are staggered by his open self-disclosure in the middle of the night."

If they had already been awed by him, having come in contact with Jesus before, why would they have needed Judas to point him out to them?