The Trinity and Tawhid

oreganbagpiper,

From you, an excellent observation which can only come from a thoughtful and probing mind: "I am really, really confused about something.  Having been raised a Christian, having studied for the Catholic priesthood, and now, reflecting on many, many years of private study have left me with one thing that I would like input from Muslims on - the Christian doctrine of the Trinity.

It seems to me that for God to be God he must be unchanging (and unchangable).  If God changes, he is not God - he is a changable finite being.  If he even possesses the ability to change, he is not infinite and eternal.

Christians believe that God is infinite and eternal, and the doctrine taught in the Nicene Creed that God is to be understood in Three Divine Persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  Even IF that is the nature of God, the Christian doctrine of the Incarnation - that is, that God the Son took on himself, Human Nature - implies that God has changed and 2000 year ago became something different:  Now Father, Son/Human Being, and Holy Spirit.

It's really the doctrine of the Incarnation that troubles me.  It seems to me that the Incarnation poses a number of problems for believing in a God who is Infinite, Eternal, Unchanging, and One.

Am I missing the ball here, or is one of the beliefs of Islam that God is eternal, unchanging, immutable, beyond time - Tawhid, I believe, encompasses this term.

I would greatly appreciate any an all feedback so as to clear up this matter.  The Incarnation theology of Christianity is really the last stumbling block in my coming to Islam.

Thank you to any and all replies."

The point is that Jesus did not teach what the Nicene Creed teaches, a Creed which was not from himself but one, which was written 365 years after he was long gone.

One can see Tawhid right here in Isaiah 45:21-24

"Declare what is to be, present it - let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past?

Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Saviour, there is none but me.

"Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear. They will say of me, 'In the Lord alone are righteous and strength.' " All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame."

oreganbagpiper, that is what Islam teaches, No other God apart from or beside the Lord Almighty.

BMZ

Cyril,

"What do the Christians say: God is one, and there are three persons or "entities" in him."

Having said, "God is One" and then by saying that there are three persons or entities in him, renders that God as not One.

Trinity can be defined by it's believers but when presented to others, it will be questioned because it is not a proven fact. Trinity is something that even God and Jesus did not ever teach and Jesus himself was not aware of. 

The Trinity is anyway a doctrine or a dogma, laid down by the authority of the Church. A doctrine or a dogma that was an arrogant declaration laid a few hundred years after Jesus.

I don't think I can agree with your argument by comparing God with a car or a house. In that case there is no similarity between the body parts of Jesus and the parts within God.