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Jennifer2003 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: does the Qur�an promote violence
    Posted: 24 April 2007 at 7:12am
I know that this is a touchy subject for many people but I would like to know your thoughts and inturpretations on this matter. I have been told that it does and that it dosen't. My understanding is that if someone attacks the Ummah all Muslims are bound to defend it. However, what counts as an attack? Who says what is a valid attack and what is not? What is a rightful Jihad and what is a fanatical Jihad? Just to clarify I know that the Qur'an preaches peace but I do also know that some say the sixth pillar (yes I know there are only five) should be Jihad, what do you think of this? Thank you for reading my post and may peace be upon you.
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rami View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2007 at 4:46am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

Salam Jennifer

My understanding is that if someone attacks the Ummah all Muslims are bound to defend it.

Under a Khalifah muslim lands where vast and many nations that exist today where rulled by one person [the khalif] in different regions of the world, so if his lands where attacked in one region other regions where duty bound to assist there muslim brothers.

Also only the khalif or his Imam had the authority to declare what may be termed today as an offensive jihad.

The other type of jihad is defensive where if a land is being invaded it becomes a religious obligation for every male in the land to defend that land from invaders, if they are not able to perform this the obligation falls to neighboring nations or regions and so on and so on.

However, what counts as an attack?

What is occurring in Iraq today can be classified as an attack, we have a foreign army invading a Muslim land deposing its rulers and installing there own form of government.

Who says what is a valid attack and what is not?

We have no authority like the church, the closest thing we have to that would be the consensus of the scholars today. If a foreign army invades a muslim land then this is a clear case without real need for scholarly opinion which i think is obvious to anyone but in the case of an offensive jihad where attacks are made on foreign soil then only the Khalif or legitimate Muslim leader on a national level can make that decision.

Organisations like al Qaidah even if they where not committing atrocities would still be an illegal organisation under islamic law becouse they act outside of and under no national/Islamic authority representing no one but themselves. Hizballah on the other hand is a legitimate organisation they have there own region which they control with there own religious structure which they follow, i should add i am not at this point referring to there method of warfare just the nature of the group.

What is a rightful Jihad and what is a fanatical Jihad?

In Jihad there are clearly defined laws any acts outside of these prescribed laws can be called fanatical.

Just to clarify I know that the Qur'an preaches peace but I do also know that some say the sixth pillar (yes I know there are only five) should be Jihad, what do you think of this?

Muslim scholars study the Quran to great depth and detail and every word in the Quran is analised even the order in which Allah mentions something is given consideration, for example if allah says"
Allah is All-knowing, Most Forbearing" we would Question and attempt to understand why he first said all knowing followed by most forbearing.

The most powerful and most beloved passage in the Quran without exception is verse 2:255 it is called ayat al kursi or the verse of the throne. No other verse is as powerful and cherished and loved as much as this one to Muslims, you will often see it displayed in peoples homes. Referring back to what i stated earlier the very next words that come after this one in the Quran are "
There is no compulsion in religion."

This verse encompasses all other aspects of the religion, meaning no other verse in the Quran can be interpreted in such a manner that contradicts this fundamental Law and principal of Islam.

By this we can measure and see who is and who isnt behaving fanatically by Allahs estimation and judgment.

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2007 at 3:55pm
Thank you for your very thoughtful explination, it is very helpful. May peace be upon you.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2007 at 8:16pm

The Quran says that if we're attacked we should fight back, but, if they (the attackers) as for peace we should go for peace too. (I dont remember the verse number hopefully someone will bring it). Prophet Mohammed made it clear and said do not kill children do not kill elderly people. Only fight those who fight you (the army). So blowing yourself up and killing babies and woman for the sake of killing one guy fighting you is absolutely forbidden.

It should be pointed out that Jihad does not mean Holly War. The word holy war doesnt even exist in the Quran. The word Jihad literally means struggle. In Islam, anything you struggle with for a good cause is considered Jihad. The Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him said the greater Jihad is the Jihad of the self. When you struggle against your souls sometimes evil desires. The lesser Jihad is the fighting in self defence. When you go to school, it is a type of Jihad. When you visit the sick. And many other good acts.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2007 at 1:50am

Yes we are ordered to fight back and never attack

ALLAH do not like transgression

But actually muslims of today neither attak or defend

They are too busy with their own pocket and life .

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2007 at 12:02am

There are some specific verses that are very often "snipped" out of context, either by those trying to malign the faith, or by misguided Muslims themselves who wish to justify their aggressive tactics.

For example, one verse (in its snipped version) reads: "slay them wherever you catch them" (Qur'an 2:191). But who is this referring to? Who are "they" that this verse discusses? The preceding and following verses give the correct context:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevails justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression" (2:190-193).

It is clear from the context that these verses are discussing a defensive war, when a Muslim community is attacked without reason, oppressed and prevented from practicing their faith. In these circumstances, permission is given to fight back -- but even then Muslims are instructed not to transgress limits, and to cease fighting as soon as the attacker gives up. Even in these circumstances, Muslim are only to fight directly against those who are attacking them, not innocent bystanders or non-combatants.

Another similar verse can be found in chapter 9, verse 5 -- which in its snipped, out of context version could read: "fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)." Again, the preceding and following verses give the context.

This verse was revealed during a historical period when the small Muslim community had entered into treaties with neighboring tribes (Jewish, Christian, and pagan). Several of the pagan tribes had violated the terms of their treaty, secretly aiding an enemy attack against the Muslim community. The verse directly before this one instructs the Muslims to continue to honor treaties with anyone who has not since betrayed them, because fulfilling agreements is considered a righteous action. Then the verse continues, that those who have violated the terms of the treaty have declared war, so fight them... (as quoted above).

Directly after this permission to fight, the same verse continues, "but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them... for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." The subsequent verses instruct the Muslims to grant asylum to any member of the pagan tribe/army who asks for it, and again reminds that "as long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God loves the righteous."

Any verse that is quoted out of context misses the whole point of the message of the Qur'an. Nowhere in the Qur'an can be found support for indiscriminate slaughter, the killing of non-combatants, or murder of innocent persons in 'payback' for another people's alleged crimes.

The Islamic teachings on this subject can be summed up in the following verses (Qur'an 60:7-8):

"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2007 at 3:39pm
Peace be upon you all.

I am a Christian in Tennessee, USA, and had excellent relationships with Muslims I met (mostly in the Gulf countries).  Because of our feelings after 9/11, I saw many emails that presented Muslims and Islam related topics in a negative way.  9/11 was horrible for us and I hope that you understand such reactions.  I created a Web site www.bahraindubai.info that has an Islam page with the goal of presenting the truth in its Islam pages.  I would welcome any comments to correct me.

But I have a question also about abrogation within the Qur'an.  I have many Q verses on the Islam2.html page of my Web site.  Some are not so friendly to unbelievers (yellow cube marked), and I got those from translation of Al Qaida speeches and from other things said by what I would call Islamic terrorists.  Having read quite a few articles about abrogation, many of the peaceful Q verses have been abrogated, which means that they have no value under Islamic practice or law.  But, which I find strange, they remain in the Qur'an and they are preached by the Imams.  So I may be missing something.    I have not updated my Islam2.html page for this because based on my limited understanding, the abrogations would make Islam out to be both peaceful and hostile against unbelievers.  In 40 years only one Muslim showed some minor hostility toward me, but the very hostile verses are there and the terrorists are using them.

Could someone help me with this dilemma also, but please back up your comments with Qur'anic verses.  Please be brutally honest with me on any critique.  I want my Web site readers to be able to verify things for themselves.  I get more than 10K visits and growing to my Web site.

Thanks and best wishes to all,
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2007 at 9:24pm

thank you brother/or may be sister (Christian) for your interest in Islam.

if you want full information about Islam please watch the free satellite channel PEACE TV for more information please go to www.peacetv.org.(  you may know this channel).

and also you can visit this website which has many questions' answers. http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm

absolutely 100% sure that this tv channel will answer all your question insha Allah.

regarding your question about abrogation in the Quran.

here is the answer from the  best philosopher of Islam Dr.Zakir Naik.

THE THEORY OF ABROGATION

Answer:

1.    Two different interpretations

The Glorious Qur�an says in the following verse:

"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?"
[Al-Qur�an 2:106]

A reference to this is also made in chapter 16 verse 101 of Surah Nahl. The Arabic word mentioned is ayat which means �signs� or �verses� and which can also mean �revelations�. This verse of the Qur�an can be interpreted in two different ways:

a.    The revelations that are abrogated are those revelations that were revealed before the Qur�an, for example the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel.

Here Allah (swt) says that He does not cause the previous revelations to be forgotten but He substitutes them with something better or similar, indicating that the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel were substituted by the Qur�an.

b.  If we consider that the Arabic word ayat in the above verse refers to the verses of the Qur�an, and not previous revelations, then it indicates that none of the verses of the Qur�an are abrogated by Allah but substituted with something better or similar. This means that certain verses of the Qur�an, that were revealed earlier were substituted by verses that were revealed later. I agree with both the interpretations.

Many Muslims and non-Muslims misunderstand the second interpretation to mean that some of the earlier verses of the Qur�an were abrogated and no longer hold true for us today, as they have been replaced by the later verses of the Qur�an or the abrogating verses. This group of people even wrongly believe that these verses contradict each other.

Let us analyze a few such examples.

2.    Produce a recital like the Qur�an / 10 Surahs / 1 Surah:

Some pagan Arabs alleged that the Qur�an was forged by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Allah (swt) challenges these Arabs in the following verse of Surah Al-Isra:

"Say: If the whole of Mankind and Jinns were together to produce the like of this Qur�an they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support."
[Al-Qur�an 17:88]

Later the challenge was made easy in the following verse of Surah Al-Hud:

"Or they may say, "He forged it." Say, "Bring ye then ten Surahs forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsover ye can, other than Allah, if ye speak the truth!�."
[Al-Qur�an 11:13]

It was made easier in the following verse of Surah Yunus:

"Or do they say, "He forged it"? Say: "Bring then a Surah like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can, besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!�."
[Al-Qur�an 10:38]

Finally in Surah Al-Baqarah, Allah (swt) further simplified the challenge:

And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah if your (doubts) are true.

But if ye cannot � and of a surety ye cannot � then fear the Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones � which is prepared for those who reject faith".
[Al-Qur�an 2:23-24]

Thus Allah (swt) made the challenges progressively easier. The progressively revealed verses of the Qur�an first challenged the pagans to produce a book like the Qur�an, then challenged them to produce ten Surahs (chapters) like those in the Qur�an, then one Surah and finally it challenges them to produce one Surah somewhat similar (mim mislihi) to the Qur�anic Surahs. This does not mean that the later verses that were revealed i.e. of Surah Baqarah chapter 2 verses 23 and 24 contradict the earlier three verses. Contradiction implies mentioning two things that cannot be possible simultaneously, or cannot take place simultaneously.

The earlier verses of the Qur�an i.e. the abrogated verses are still the word of God and the information contained in it is true to this day. For instance the challenge to produce a recital like the Qur�an stands to this day. Similarly the challenge to produce ten Surahs and one Surah exactly like the Qur�an also holds true and the last challenge of producing one surah somewhat similar to the Qur�an also holds true. It does not contradict the earlier challenges, but this is the easiest of all the challenges posed by the Qur�an. If the last challenge cannot be fulfilled, the question of anyone fulfilling the other three more difficult challenges does not arise.

Suppose I speak about a person that he is so dumb, that he would not be able to pass the 10th standard in school. Later I say that he would not be able to pass the 5th standard, and further say that he would not be able to pass even the 1st standard. Finally I say that he is so dull that he would not even be able to pass K.G. i.e. kindergarten. One has to pass kindergarten before one can be admitted to school. What I am stating is that the person is so dull as to be unable to pass even kindergarten. My four statements do not contradict each other, but my last statement i.e. the person would not be able to pass the kindergarten is sufficient to indicate the intelligence of that person. If a person cannot even pass kindergarten, the question of him passing the first standard or 5th or 10th, does not arise.

3.    Gradual prohibition of intoxicants

Another example of such verses is that related to gradual prohibition of intoxicants. The first revelation of the Qur�an to deal with intoxicants was the following verse from Surah Baqarah:

"They ask thee concerning wine and gambling say: �In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit�."
[Al-Qur�an 2:219]

The next verse to be revealed regarding intoxicants is the following verse from Surah Nisa:

"O ye who believe! approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say" [Al-Qur�an 4:43]

The last verse to be revealed regarding intoxicants was the following verse from Surah Al-Maidah:

"O ye who believe! intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination of Satan�s handiwork; eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper."
[Al-Qur�an 5:90]

The Qur�an was revealed over a period of 22� years. Many reforms that were brought about in the society were gradual. This was to facilitate the adoption of new laws by the people. An abrupt change in society always leads to rebellion and anarchy.

The prohibition of intoxicants was revealed in three stages. The first revelation only mentioned that in the intoxicants there is great sin and some profit but the sin is greater than the profit. The next revelation prohibited praying in an intoxicated state, indicating that one should not consume intoxicants during the day, since a Muslim has to pray five times a day. This verse does state that when one is not praying at night one is allowed to consume intoxicants. It means one may have or one may not have. The Qur�an does not comment on it. If this verse had mentioned that one is allowed to have intoxicants while not praying then there would have been a contradiction. Allah (swt) chose words appropriately. Finally the total prohibition of intoxicants at all times was revealed in Surah Maidah chapter 5 verse 90.

This clearly indicates that the three verses do not contradict each other. Had they been contradicting, it would not have been possible to follow all the three verses simultaneously. Since a Muslim is expected to follow each and every verse of the Qur�an, only by following the last verse i.e. of Surah Maidah (5:90), he simultaneously agrees and follows the previous two verses.

Suppose I say that I do not live in Los Angeles. Later I say that I do not live in California. Finally I say, I do not live in the United States of America. This does not imply that these three statements contradict each other. Each statement gives more information than the previous statement. The third statement includes the information contained in the first two statements. Thus, only by saying that I do not live in the United States of America, it is obvious, that I also do not live in California nor New York. Similarly since consuming alcohol is totally prohibited, it is obvious that praying in an intoxicated state is also prohibited and the information that in intoxicants is "great sin and some profit for men; but the sin is greater than profit" also holds true.

4.     Qur�an does not contain any contradictions

The theory of abrogation does not imply that there is a contradiction in the Qur�an, since it is possible to follow all the verses of the Qur�an at the same time.

If there is a contradiction in the Qur�an, then it cannot be the word of Allah (swt).

"Do they not consider the Qur�an (with care)? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy (contradictions)."

[Al-Qur�an 4:82]

http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm

 

 

1:"The TRUTH stands out clear from error"2:256

2:"When comes the Help of God, and Victory And thou dost see the people enter God's Religion (ISLAM) in crowds".110:01-2.
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