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Israfil 
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Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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 Posted: 04 August 2008 at 7:33pm |
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Israfil, you have stated many times here that you would not marry a woman who did not have a good job and who was not willing to work. Doesn't that put you in the same category as women who look for a mate in a good financial situation?
No. the difference is I am a professional who works part-time in law enforcement, and part-time as a practicing Neuropsychologist. So my time is divided in these two fields. For a materialistic gold-digging woman, most likely she is not a professional, does not work and if she does its not in an academic or professional field. when I said I want a woman to work means that I would like a contributing partner who shares in the financial load. Because i live in California and the housing prices are high nowadays it would be important to have a partner who shares in the financial obligations. This is not the same as a woman who marries simply for money. There is a HUGE difference.
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Shasta'sAunt
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Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
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Posted: 04 August 2008 at 5:14pm |
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"Any woman (I mean any including my own mother who is dead gone) marries a man simply because he is financially wealthy is an immoral gold-digger."
Israfil, you have stated many times here that you would not marry a woman who did not have a good job and who was not willing to work. Doesn't that put you in the same category as women who look for a mate in a good financial situation?
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Israfil
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Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Posted: 04 August 2008 at 2:56pm |
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I don't think it makes women "gold-diggers" are you say.
Any woman (I mean any including my own mother who is dead gone) marries a man simply because he is financially wealthy is an immoral gold-digger. I know some muslim women to behave this way call it culture or American (wetsern) influence but that is the reality. The criteria of a person marrying someone else fort their finances is not an altruistic trait its about selfishness. Most of these women in my experience tend to be uneducated, jobless, but have access to lavish things because of their physical appearence.
But the reality is that women have fewer economic opportunites as men al lover the world.
True. But this is not an excuse for any woman or man to be an immoral creature. Moderate altruism is a good virtue to have as a human being and when a woman transgress this by marrying a man because he has 6-7-8 figures means she is not only looking out for herself but also the benefits. I'm merely speaking of western society not tribalistic cultures by the way because the circumstances is quite different.
Women will be the ones who get pregnant and have the main resonsibility of raising the children.
Not always. Depending on the society you live in and the mind-set you have. If a gold digger gets pregnant more than likely she'll do two things:
1) leave the man and claim child support
2) Get married
Economic viabilty is less of a need for men looking for women.
HMMMM. Obviously with this kind of comment you are not of the minority groups in America. Because I am I have less economic opportunities than my white counter-parts but the things that I do have, did so through earning them with hard work. If I stop working hard then i don't eat and don't have a place to stay. Even if I have slightly more opportunities because I am a male it is still not equivalent to white females in the working corporate world.
Not that the really large men or odd-ball men don't get married. But average guys do.
I'll sacrifice myself here. I have a good career. make good money. Unmarried. What is the problem here? I do have an endless supply of women who are interested in me not because of my "intellect" but because of my finances and where I work and what I do so am I wrong to not allow a woman to secure he genetic offspring by not marrying her simply because she is only interested in me for my money?
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Hayfa
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Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368 |
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Posted: 04 August 2008 at 6:34am |
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There are many factors that go into finding a mate.. and the criteria have some overlap and some that is more enhanced than others. And as notes, in cultures it is different. In many cultures, women have far less access to education than men. So they are ata disadvantage. So parents will try to find the best economic outlook as possible for their daughters (if they care for them). Thus looks is less of a factor.
I don't think it makes women "gold-diggers" are you say. But the reality is that women have fewer economic opportunites as men al lover the world. Women will be the ones who get pregnant and have the main resonsibility of raising the children. So someone who is not say "rich" but who is a good worker and provider is quite attractive. Economic viabilty is less of a need for men looking for women.
Israfil, if all things were more "equal" this would not be the case I suspect. It is interesting that here in the west.. when "dating" yeah they'll choose the handsome guy. But when it comes to marriage and having a father for thier offspring.. many women are less focused on it. Not that the really large men or odd-ball men don't get married. But average guys do.
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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Israfil
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Posted: 03 August 2008 at 10:52pm |
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I think that these women are not neccessarily materialistic, but are trying to secure a stable future for thier future gens by choosing a mate on basis of finances.
This is a biological treatment and excuse for 'golddiggers.' This is also an immoral trait because the drive is about self, not necessarily family. I highly doubt women go around looking for rich men to secure their genetic makeup. Perhaps you maybe explaining how you think versus what other women think. I believe financial security is important, but I don't think you can prove that this is an naturalistic inclination for most women. Also, just to let you know, some women DO NOT know that some rich men are not suitable mates. I believe some women ( a large portion where i live) are quite ignorant of that. Sure a wealthy man may provide lavish gifts and other exchange for whatever, but most of these men have 4-5 women they provide for as well. Yes, I'm hinting at polygamous, non-marital relationships.
I believe I mentioned in one of my previous posts that in every society/culture, there is a cerain standard of the 'financially suitability' of a husband. So perhaps the man you consider 'impoverished', is actually considered a financially to-do spouse - by the 'impoverished' wife in question.
This is illogical. The structure of your statement here assumes that there is no relatistic understanding of the difference between an impoverished person, and financially secure person. I believe most impoverished people know what their economic situation is and know the economic situation of other individuals within their class. As S.A. has stated previously one of the causes for impoverished relationships to occur is proximity. Since, poor people do not have access to financially secure mates their only option is to marry from within their class. The one goat, donkey examples maybe true however this is not true for everyone. In Africa, having one goat is equivalent to being poor. Since you are referring to cultural standards what do you make of people called the 'untouchables' in India? I'm sure they know of their situation and know that members within their own 'class' are impoverished as well.
Very true. However I believe testosterone will beat these 'hormonal' females anyday . . . (couldnt help but add, "women can be hormonal creatures" . . . "men are hormonal creatures."
 )True. But the fact that it is proven that women have a natural chemical imbalance during their menstrual stages tells all! Plus pregnancy. Women are pretty much guided by their hormones. Some men as well, but not on the same basis as women.
I honestly didnt get this part. .
Well that is my fault I probably had multiple thoughts in my mind and blabbered this one out. Just forget what I said there.
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Chrysalis
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Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033 |
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Posted: 02 August 2008 at 6:02am |
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Ofcourse if person is rich or financially stable does not mean that they are NECESSARILY suitable partners/good husbands . . . Nowhere did I state that. I'm just building on the notion that 'women who wish to marry for money are materialistic.' . . . I think that these women are not neccessarily materialistic, but are trying to secure a stable future for thier future gens by choosing a mate on basis of finances. (I'm also not going to say all women are like there, I'm sure there are a lot of Anna Nicoles out there too - whose basis is not as much a natural drive as it is greed. . .and yes, Im sure there are many materialistic females as well.) Ofcourse there are going to be other criteria as well, such as education, character , physical features etc etc etc. Finances are not the single mate-criteria. . . .just like a female Peahen will not just look at the Peacock's tail . . .but will also consider other aspects as well, such as color, size, dance etc etc.
Just cz a man is rich, does not mean he will be a good husband. . . women know that, you and I know that.
I believe I mentioned in one of my previous posts that in every society/culture, there is a cerain standard of the 'financially suitability' of a husband. So perhaps the man you consider 'impoverished', is actually considered a financially to-do spouse - by the 'impoverished' wife in question. A man owning a goat, or a donkey-cart in rural areas in Pakistan will be considered financially 'suitable' by ppl living in the same area. . . or with similar standards. People also generally tend to marry within thier own standards, morals, circles - even areas. And I am talking globally on an average . . . not just modern-educated ppl of the USA/UK. Hence a so-called impoverished person is more likely to marry another impoverished person, rather than wait for a Prince Charming from the city. Cross-Marriages of such a kind happen, but are few - if not rare.
This is a personal observation that is reflected in other's behaviour, and opinions as well. However, I think that just because you yourself do not judge ppl/women on the basis of appearances, you think that other ppl/men dont either. . . when in actuality they do. (Most, not all)
One doesnt even need a research done to know that. Studying in a co-ed and knowing peer opinions gives insight as well.
 )
I personally think that would make for a very interesting research paper. Something I wouldnt mind elaborating on . . . after a little thought.
I honestly didnt get this part. . .
From what I gather, I think that educational conditioning, culture etc are at play here. Also, since financially well-off women are already taken care of in that department, the 'wieghtage' given to finances in the spouse-selection is relatively lower. Hence they move up the ladder in thier Hierarchy of needs, and give more wieghtage to other factors such as looks, social standing, character, education etc.
Edited by Chrysalis - 02 August 2008 at 6:05am |
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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Shasta'sAunt
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Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
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Posted: 01 August 2008 at 4:51pm |
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"If this were the case how to do you adccount for the impoverished women who marry impoverished men?"
Proximity.
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Israfil
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Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Posted: 30 July 2008 at 11:29pm |
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This social conditioning itself is a result of this natural inclination.
Financial security and security of one's genetics from generation to generation is different. True, one may allude one's bank account to being a secure individual and thus a suitable mate but this does not NECESSARILY mean that this makes them a suitable partner. If you believe most humans aren't that shallow human females if not conditioned, don't have a natural inclination to be with a man for their money. If this were the case how to do you adccount for the impoverished women who marry impoverished men?
Its the same story with men choosing women, just the criteria is different i.e. appearance/feminity.
I disagree. but then again you are making a personal observation.
So you think that saying that the female body is more objectified than the male body is BS?
I thought your analysis of why women arre objectified physically is BS.
If there are 10 women at your Gym, 4 will react the way you said they did. 6 will not react this way. Whereas if it were men passing by a woman, 6 would react, 4 would not.
Women can be hormonal creatures. In my experience those wouldn't be accurate numbers....
 If you can provide an explanation on your theory of natural inclination to financially secured males then I'll rethink my statements. Oh by the way, more impoverished women marry faster than financially well off couples so yeah, I would hope you can explanin that.
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Israfil wrote: