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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Points: 2991 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2014 at 12:35am
Originally posted by The Saint The Saint wrote:

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


Greetings The Saint,
No, I don't agree that Yshwe was "sent 'only to the lost sheep of Israel'".

I am sure you know well that the Bible testifies to him saying exactly that. Want me to quote?

Greetings The Saint,

It was Yshwe who directed:
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
as previously shared with you.

Yshwe clearly came as a means to bring all of mankind to repentance and salvation.

Originally posted by The Saint The Saint wrote:


I believe I quoted the verse which amply illustrates his contempt for his fellow men.

I am afraid that I don't see where you believe you showed that Yshwe showed contempt.
asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 18 November 2014 at 12:36am
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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kingskid View Drop Down
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Points: 125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingskid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2014 at 8:20am
Muslim75, you wrote: "
Honeto, Caringheart and you who call yourself "saint",
 
Men are not born with a propensity to sin. In Islam, men are born pure. Consider the baby who cries as he is born. He is pure. Then they start to sin at one point of time. Yet nothing is considered a sin until puberty...

If you believe that men are born pure and a baby is born pure until "...they start to sin at one point of time...", how can they sin if they are born pure?  What is the age of puberty for Muslims?  9, 12, it varies?  Regardless of the age puberty is determined, it must be concluded that what a child does the day before he attains puberty is not sin, but the next day it is.  If one were to set aside faith and simply use reason, it does not make sense that an act is not considered sinful one day, but on the next day when he attains puberty, it is. 

Being born with a sin nature can only be understood by the rebellion of Adam and Eve and what happened to them when they disobeyed God and died spiritually in losing precious fellowship with God.  Their act of rebellion brought sin into the world for all mankind, hence the need for a Saviour.  Yeshua/Jesus, the Son of God, and the "Lamb Who takes away the sin of the world", became the acceptable sacrifice to atone for man's sinfulness.

It doesn't matter if the term "original sin" is used or another term.  The fact remains that man has the propensity to sin from birth, not only the day he attains puberty.  We have all experienced the reality of sin in our own lives and in the lives of others.  If not, we deceive ourselves.   That is the Christian view.
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The Saint View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


Originally posted by The Saint The Saint wrote:

So you agree that Jesus PBUH was sent 'only to the lost sheep of Israel'. Then you must surely understand the significance or the extent of his mission? He was sent to try to rein-in the murderous and severely disobedient jews.

How can such a man be a universal saviour? Which he obviously had to be in order to save all mankind?

He spoke with contempt. Certainly not an ideal attitude towards his own disciples. Proves he was a man capable of making mistakes.

Btw, there is doubt about the authenticity of the verse: 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

May Allah SWT guide us all. Aameen.

Greetings The Saint,No, I don't agree that Yshwe was "sent 'only to the lost sheep of Israel'".

I am sure you know well that the Bible testifies to him saying exactly that. Want me to quote?v

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-23970" ="text Matt-24-12"><sup ="versenum">12�And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-23971" ="text Matt-24-13"><sup ="versenum">13�But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-23972" ="text Matt-24-14"><sup ="versenum">14�And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.</span>

<span id="en-KJV-23972" ="text Matt-24-14">These are the words of Yshwe, recorded in the book of Matthew, chapter 24.� I highly recommend to everyone, to read Matthew 24, to understand the times we are presently in.</span>

Yshwe "spoke with contempt"?� On what do you base this statement?

To what purpose have you quoted these verses? How do they support your stand that Jesus PBUH was not sent only to the house of Israel?


I believe I quoted the verse which amply illustrates his contempt for his fellow men. As does his cursing the tree. He even spoke rudely to his mother according to the Bible.


Salaam and shukran for your replies,Caringheart


Wassalaam.
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The Saint View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Muslim75 Muslim75 wrote:

Honeto, Caringheart and�you who call�yourself "saint",
�

Men are not born with a propensity to sin. In Islam, men are born pure. Consider the baby who cries as he is born. He is pure. Then they start to sin at one point of time. Yet nothing is considered a sin until puberty.

�

Ignorance does exist inside the human nature. It is not so for prophets. No sin is ever recorded for a prophet. "Ma'sum" we say in Islam.

�

The life of Jesus is poorly recorded as compared to that of Muhammad (salla Lahu alayhi wa alihi wa sallam). No one can deny this.

�

Of course they will say men are born as sinners, since the truth is (according to Islam), there is no sin until puberty. It is convenient to say men are born sinning, since it gets�rid of the love-fornication topic, which humans can not live without. Therein you�clearly see that Christianity and the�Bible�are nothing but forgeries of human beings. It is not so for Islam. The life of Muhammad (salla Lahu alayhi wa alihi wa sallam) was very well recorded, as everyone knows.



I agree.
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Points: 2991 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2014 at 11:45pm
Originally posted by Muslim75 Muslim75 wrote:

Caringheart,
 
God does not come in the form of a flesh. God is an entity, the human being is an entity. There is nothing like God. The Creator of the cosmos, of this endless universe, without any help from anyone is not a mortal who marries and has a son.
 
Christians must learn to be courteous to God and to the human beings.

Greetings Muslim75,

I agree, God does not marry.  His seed was implanted in the virgin (Mary), by the power of the Holy Spirit, that the One who came to be known as Son of God might come into the world in the form of flesh.
This is how I understand, and this is how I believe, according to the things which Yshwe spoke to His Disciples.

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Points: 2991 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2014 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by The Saint The Saint wrote:


So you agree that Jesus PBUH was sent 'only to the lost sheep of Israel'. Then you must surely understand the significance or the extent of his mission? He was sent to try to rein-in the murderous and severely disobedient jews.

How can such a man be a universal saviour? Which he obviously had to be in order to save all mankind?

He spoke with contempt. Certainly not an ideal attitude towards his own disciples. Proves he was a man capable of making mistakes.

Btw, there is doubt about the authenticity of the verse: 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

May Allah SWT guide us all. Aameen.

Greetings The Saint,

No, I don't agree that Yshwe was "sent 'only to the lost sheep of Israel'".
I agree that He was sent to the Jews from whom to call His Disciples, and from whom the message of Yshwe, of God, would go out to all the world.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

These are the words of Yshwe, recorded in the book of Matthew, chapter 24.  I highly recommend to everyone, to read Matthew 24, to understand the times we are presently in.


Yshwe "spoke with contempt"?  On what do you base this statement?

Salaam and shukran for your replies,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Muslim75 View Drop Down
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------------------------------------------



Edited by Muslim75 - 04 January 2015 at 11:33am
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Muslim75 View Drop Down
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Edited by Muslim75 - 04 January 2015 at 11:31am
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