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Humanity's purpose
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apel View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 December 2008 at 2:23am
Originally posted by jusaskin jusaskin wrote:

It seems that this topic has been exhausted, and I'd like to thank those who participated. I have learned a few things. I will not be monitoring this topic in the future. Thanks again!
 

I would like to thank you too for this topic. I learned few things too. Being a human is like a journey that you must go through it.

I would like to share that I was seeking for something that I need, for months. Last month, I gave up looking for and I decided to buy but It was again difficult to find it and indeed it is expensive. I could not find any shop but finally I could find somebody agreed to give his component to me with an expensive price. I bought it. And, two days ago I found the component my original component in a very simple place at home. Perhaps every day I was looking there but I could have not seen it. I think the reason for that I was not looking there to find the component because I was not thinking that I could find it there, in a very simple place of the room.
 

I think sometimes it is better to think simply/basically and sometimes it is better to realise/to see rather than to understand deeply.

Al-Imran (The Family of Imran)

3:7 He it is who has bestowed upon thee from on high this divine writ, containing messages that are clear in and by themselves - and these are the essence of the divine writ - as well as others that are allegorical. [5] Now those whose hearts are given to swerving from the truth go after that part of the divine writ [6] which has been expressed in allegory, seeking out [what is bound to create] confusion, [7] and seeking [to arrive at] its final meaning [in an arbitrary manner]; but none save God knows its final meaning. [8] Hence, those who are deeply rooted in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole [of the divine writ] is from our Sustainer - albeit none takes this to heart save those who are endowed with insight.

Apel
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It seems that this topic has been exhausted, and I'd like to thank those who participated. I have learned a few things. I will not be monitoring this topic in the future. Thanks again!
joe
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Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

in order to be closer to the word of God, the Quran, one must try to learn its language
 
Yes, I can understand how you believe that! Thank you for the explanation.
 
 
joe
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Originally posted by jusaskin jusaskin wrote:

Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

 We are taught how to read the Quran by a Qari, but we actually were never taught the Arabic language. We were taught what a verse or ayah means in our own language.
 
This will be off the subject a bit, but I'd like to follow up on this if I may. Your native language is not Arabic, but you learn from a translator how to identify, and I assume pronounce, the Arabic words of the Quran, the meaning of each being interpreted into your own language? I get the picture of someone speaking in one language (Arabic), but understanding in another (your native language). Is this method commanded in the Quran?
 
If I'm understanding the process, it recalls my youthful days as an American Catholic. We would participate in a religious service called "mass" which was spoken in Latin. We would be taught what the "sounds" meant but never learned the Latin language itself, only the certain words that were spoken at mass. Even though we said the Latin words, we would understand what was being said through our understanding of the English transation of those words. Is that about what you are doing with the Quran?
 
 
 
Hi Joe,
no, this method is not commanded in the Quran. Thsi method has been in practice simply for those who don't have the capacity to learn Arabic for any reasons whatsoever yet want to read and be able to recite (do Qir a') in the original language as the recital of the Quran in Arabic is very beautiful and soothing to the ear. But every practicing Muslim do memorise several suras and learn their meanings so they can recite them during daily five Salath.
I must add that in order to be closer to the word of God, the Quran, one must try to learn its language, that will be better.
I grew up in a less religious envirnment thus was not encouraged to learn Arabic, now my effort is that my children have a chance to learn  the language of the Quran.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 09 December 2008 at 3:47pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Originally posted by jusaskin jusaskin wrote:

Originally posted by nothing nothing wrote:

But in your OP you specifically mention "mankind". Is Jinn included here also? 
 
I was thinking about the human race when I used the term "mankind". Does your notion of mankind include the Jinn? If so, and you wish to give a response to the question, please include them.
 
Mankind is always understood as human race, and that is the way I undertand it.
 
Jinn today in my understanding is as inseperable beings, although in general they are being understood as seperate beings occupying different space. Also, it is generally understood that Jinns were already exist prior the human existance.
 
Depend on the way each individual understanding here. 
 
If a person believe that Jinn were exist before humans therefore pooling the Jinn in this topic seems off the mark - because Jinn is not part of the plan in this term.
 
But maybe it is already stated in here indirectly?
 
And when thy Lord said unto the angels:
Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth,
they said:
Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee?
He said:
Surely I know that which ye know not. (2:30)
 
 
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Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

 We are taught how to read the Quran by a Qari, but we actually were never taught the Arabic language. We were taught what a verse or ayah means in our own language.
 
This will be off the subject a bit, but I'd like to follow up on this if I may. Your native language is not Arabic, but you learn from a translator how to identify, and I assume pronounce, the Arabic words of the Quran, the meaning of each being interpreted into your own language? I get the picture of someone speaking in one language (Arabic), but understanding in another (your native language). Is this method commanded in the Quran?
 
If I'm understanding the process, it recalls my youthful days as an American Catholic. We would participate in a religious service called "mass" which was spoken in Latin. We would be taught what the "sounds" meant but never learned the Latin language itself, only the certain words that were spoken at mass. Even though we said the Latin words, we would understand what was being said through our understanding of the English transation of those words. Is that about what you are doing with the Quran?
 
joe
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Originally posted by nothing nothing wrote:

But in your OP you specifically mention "mankind". Is Jinn included here also? 
 
I was thinking about the human race when I used the term "mankind". Does your notion of mankind include the Jinn? If so, and you wish to give a response to the question, please include them.
joe
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Originally posted by jusaskin jusaskin wrote:

Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

[ I do read Arabic though and know deeper meanings of some words.
 
"Wama khalaqtu aljinna waal-insa illa liyaAAbudooni" is the transliterated verse according to YaQuB website. Since I don't know Arabic, but would like to examine the words a bit closer, would you explain the last word, if that is the correct term for "liyaAAbudooni"?
 
I understand that classical Arabic is a bit different than modern standard Arabic. Which do you read, or do you read both? Can you tell if the above transliteration is SA or MSA?
 
Something I recently read about Muslims reciting prayers rather startled me ..... that all Muslims must pray in the classical Arabic language. Is that true?
 
Joe,
I just want to remind you that I do read Arabic Quran, but do not know Arabic. Muslims like myself who are none Arabs do learn to read the Quran, and the Quranic Arabic regardless of what our language is. This is mainly for the purpose of Qir'ah or recitation during the daily five Salath and for Quranic recitations for suplications etc. Yes the Quran is recited in what is called Quranic Arabic, the original language of the Quran. We are taught how to read the Quran by a Qari, but we actually were never taught the Arabic language. We were taught what a verse or ayah means in our own language.
 
Now as far as your question regarding the last word in 51:56  ( لِيَعْبُدُونِ): I would like someone who is expert in Quranic Arabic to complete and correct my answer if so. In my understanding the word can be translated and understood in context of the verse as, " for obdience, for service, and for worship"
 
Hasan
 
 
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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