CRITICAL STUDY OF SHIRK |
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abosait
Senior Member Joined: 05 November 2008 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 381 |
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Posted: 28 May 2010 at 10:43am |
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Wa Alaikum assalam wa Rahmaullah.
Nur,
I am glad at least now you have realised that. Haq is bound to last and baatil is bound to perish as can be seen from the following Verse:
Al-Isra [17:81]
17:81 And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." Following Sufi liteature and reading random verses (the meanings of the Verses I mean) and neglecting the remaining portion of the Qur'an or leaving it for the Mullah to understand is not going to help you attain purification.
At least once in your lifetime read the meanings of the Qur'an from an authentic tafsir book staring from Sura 1. to Surah 114. By authentic Tafsir book I mean a translation with explanatory note explaining the meanings of the Verses as understood by the Sahaba because they were taught Qur'an by the Prophet himself. |
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abosait
Senior Member Joined: 05 November 2008 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 381 |
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Wa alaikum assalam wa Rahmatullah.
Nur Ilahi, the topic of discussion is CRITICAL STUDY OF SHIRK and you want everyone to talk about Ihsan, and you want to preach more about Sufism in this thread?
This is not fair. In everyone of my post I have been giving you the opportunity to explain to me whatever new information I come across in your post.
The discussion is in progress and I had raised a question in reply to your post which you are unable to answer and thus trying to wind up and quit abruptly?
The question is in my previous post and I repeat:
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Nur_Ilahi
Senior Member Joined: 19 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1031 |
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Assalamualaikum Abosait.
I think it is useless to discuss with you about tasawwuf. I realized this futility when you gave me the link and I read Nausheen's advice.
Here is the response I gave her.
Actually, debating with you is not only due to my desire to share something that I know is very precious and important, but also to other readers here who may want to know more about Sufism or tasawwuf - purification of the Soul.
But then I found that your insistent refusal to acknowledge the Purity of teachings of Ihsan, would only make you more vulnerable to sins and I am partly responsible for it.
I do not want that to happen.
Till some other time, I pray that Allah will forgive your sins and mine and all our Muslim Brothers and Sisters.
Ameen.
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Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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abosait
Senior Member Joined: 05 November 2008 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 381 |
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Jazakallahu khair for your truthfulness. Ameen.
I have not pointed my finger at anyone but it is you who are selecting the Buzurgs and accusing them. Also Nur, please dont forget that no human being is infallible.
What makes you come to such conclusion? I repeat my statement highlighting the lines which if you read along with the verses that I quoted in Proof will convince you as to how wrong you are in your above statement.
But regarding the purification of the soul He says it is He who will purify you. He also mentions in those Verses the conditions under which He will Purify you and mentions the conditions under which He will not.
Of course. Who has denied that?
In which century was IHSAN given the grade of 'another pillar of Islam' and by whom?
Also please read my post at the following page.:
Edited by abosait - 25 May 2010 at 10:27am |
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Nur_Ilahi
Senior Member Joined: 19 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1031 |
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What is Jouberar?
He is just another Bible Thumping Christian here.
When/where did I deny that ?
Yes, you did not deny them directly. However if you consider Sufism as a deviant Islamic way, then you are also guilty of accusing these two famous Sufis and of course many many others like Saiyyidina Ali, Saiyidina Abu Bakar, Salman Al-Farisi, Jafar As-Sidiq and many others of the golden chain of Sufi Masters that you can find here - http://www.nurmuhammad.com/GoldenChain/GS/NaqshbandiGoldenChainMain.htm
Try to understand the meaning of the Verse in context. It is only a reminder to follow the Guidance of the Qur'an and Sunnah and cannot be misinterpreted to mean following of a Sufi Master.
These Sufi Masters were all following the Quran and the Sunnah. Also do not forget that Tasawwuf or Sufism comes from Al-Ihsan. In todays world, we could easily find Teachers and Scholars to teach us the five pillars of Islam and the six pillars of Iman, but it is very very difficult to find Masters who could teach us the two pillars of Ihsan. �Truly, God does not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves.� (Quran 13:11)
Lit., "that which is in themselves". This statement has both a positive and a negative connotation: i.e., God does not withdraw His blessings from men unless their inner selves become depraved (cf. 8:53), just as He does not bestow His blessings upon wilful sinners until they change their inner disposition and become worthy of His grace. In its wider sense, this is an illustration of the divine law of cause and effect (sunnat Allah) which dominates the lives of both individuals and communities, and makes the rise and fall of civilizations dependent on people's moral qualities and the changes in "their inner selves".(Quran Ref: 13:11 )
In Tasawwuf there are Administered Fate and Natural Fate. In this verse it means Administered fate. You cannot depend wholly on Allah to change your fate. You have to help yourself. While in your explanation previously, you put all the action on Allah. That we have no say in our own fate. I quote again what you wrote -
But regarding the purification of the soul He says it is He who will purify you. He also mentions in those Verses the conditions under which He will Purify you and mentions the conditions under which He will not.
The sense of hearing is a gift of Allah without which the life on earth will be miserable. I dont understand what makes you say you want to get rid of this God given gift.
I am sure that you have read stories of Rasulullah or his friends when praying, they were oblivious of everything. Rasulullah prayed until his legs became swollen, Ali Radhiyallahuanhu prayed until he did not feel the pain of the arrow being pulled from his back, Abu Bakar weeping while praying and many more. The analogy is like this, we are so absorbed in doing something that we really are so interested in, or absorbed in watching a TV programme, sometimes we are oblivious of everything else. Someone calling, you cannot hear, someone walking, by you cannot see. The attention is 100 percent towards what we were doing.
In solah, this can also be achieved. Apply Ihsan - to worship as if you are seeing Allah, if not He definitely sees you.
And in a similar way the Sufis want you to believe that Allah will not accept your prayers because the sound of Aeroplane is being heard along with your words of prayer. Will you take it or leave it?
As we know Allah is Ar-Rahman Most Gracious, Ar-Raheem Most Merciful, Al-Ghafur - Most Forgiving, At-Taubah - Accepter of Repentance. He will judge us fairly as He is Al-Adl - Most Just. He will judge us according to our ability and our knowledge.
Abosait, I am going to be 50 this year and I had learned from many teachers since my teenage years, but only 5 years back I was so lucky to find a thariqah that teach one about another pillar of Islam that many teachers avoid that is IHSAN.
Since then, there had been a lot of improvements even if it is slowly. And that I could not thank Allah enough.
Alhamdulillah.
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Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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abosait
Senior Member Joined: 05 November 2008 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 381 |
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What is Jouberar?
When/where did I deny that ?
Try to understand the meaning of the Verse in context. It is only a reminder to follow the Guidance of the Qur'an and Sunnah and cannot be misinterpreted to mean following of a Sufi Master.
The sense of hearing is a gift of Allah without which the life on earth will be miserable. I dont understand what makes you say you want to get rid of this God given gift. Please go back and read the example I had given. You are asking me to lend you a book and the cat is mewing. It would be wrong to conclude that I will not lend you the book because you are asking the cat and not me. And in a similar way the Sufis want you to believe that Allah will not accept your prayers because the sound of Aeroplane is being heard along with your words of prayer. Will you take it or leave it?
Edited by abosait - 24 May 2010 at 11:31am |
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Nur_Ilahi
Senior Member Joined: 19 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1031 |
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And Noor, from your
writings it is clear that you are satisfied with mere arguements of
human beings and writings of Sufi Shaikhs rather than a solid copy-paste
proof from the Qur'an. But Islam requires that you ponder over the
meanings of the Verses and try to understand them.
No, you got me wrong there. I am able to do the same thing in reply to you by copy=paste from sources of the Quran which is so abundant, but what is the point? You copy paste yours, I copy paste mine, where do we go from here? Does not that makes us like Jouberar? Just want to remind you again that Al-Ghazali and Sheikh Abdul Qadir Al-Jailani were two of the great Sufi Masters. What is your position, what do you think of these two great Sufis? Were they deviant of Islam? If you have really
pondered over those verses you would know that Allah has ordered us to
pay attention to physical cleanliness and the following of His commands
and the teachings of the Prophet. But regarding the purification of the
soul He says it is He who will purify you. He also mentions in those
Verses the conditions under which He will Purify you and mentions the
conditions under which He will not.
�Truly, God does not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves.� (Quran 13:11) This verse contradicts your post above. Physical purification is very easy, but purification of the soul is not. And your answer to my statement - While praying, we could hear the aeroplane flying past, that big 747 jumbo sitting on our head while the tongue verbally saying - iyya kana' budu, wa iyya ka nas ta in. Can we consider this as shirk or is it hypocrisy? is not satisfying enough. I wish you would tell me how could we get rid these kinds of thoughts and really mean what we verbally say - meaning physically and spiritually so that we are not guilty of spiritual hypocrisy or shirk? |
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Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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abosait
Senior Member Joined: 05 November 2008 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 381 |
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Proof for the above is in the following Verses: (I have quoted the translation of the meanings for your kind reference.) |
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