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b95000 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 July 2005 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by herjihad herjihad wrote:

Bismillah,

I am not around anyone who justifies terrorism, except those who agree with the Iraqi war. 

B: What do you make of the hundreds of thousands of people Saddam killed - does that not make the case that the world is better off without him?
http://www.massgraves.info/

No one I know would venture to say anything in support of Al-Qaeda to the slightest degree.  Anyone in Phalasteen who straps a bomb to themselves and tries to kill non-combatants is misguided if they think any Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Vadantan, or Jew supports them.

B: But apparently many Muslims DO support this kind of action.  What are we to make of this?

We boldly say that murderers of innocents are not blessed by Allah, SWT!  While a person is in the act of committing a major sin, at that moment, he is not Muslim, not blessed by Allah, SWT, in any way!

 So when people die murdering innocent non-combatants, they are doomed to hell.  This is for all people who destroy others indiscriminately with bombs and guns. People can call themselves whatever they like:  Muslim, Christian, Jew.  We can just repeatedly say that mass murderers do not qualify for those esteemed titles.

B: I generally agree with your sentiments.  Your last sentence especially is pungent.  I would distinguish those who free people from mass murderers from mass murderers themselves - unless you know some other finer distinction..and I am not saying the MNF action has been perfect...yet, justified in the larger picture...most Iraqis agree with this sentiment, although they've borne a pretty terrible brunt of suffering for FREEDOM.



Edited by b95000
Bruce
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DavidC View Drop Down
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Originally posted by b95000 b95000 wrote:

- why is Islam, at present, being so widely
co-opted by so many known terrorists and terrorist organizations?�
I don't mean to be provocative - but it's just not enough, any more, to
say, we're opposed to these criminals.� How can we prevent them from
taking cover in the banner of Faith/Islam?


Public demonstrations and public prayer anywhere these criminal
attitudes are promulgated. Look to the environmentalists, anti-G8 and
US peace activists for examples of positive tactics.

You need not criticize the faith of anyone - just make your own faith
incarnate with your presence and actions.

Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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herjihad View Drop Down
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Bismillah,

I am not around anyone who justifies terrorism, except those who agree with the Iraqi war.  No one I know would venture to say anything in support of Al-Qaeda to the slightest degree.  Anyone in Phalasteen who straps a bomb to themselves and tries to kill non-combatants is misguided if they think any Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Vadantan, or Jew supports them.

There are wars in the world now, you know.  Combat is different.  Defending your home from invaders honors and dignifies Muslims. Muslims who die defending their homes go straight to heaven.

We boldly say that murderers of innocents are not blessed by Allah, SWT!  While a person is in the act of committing a major sin, at that moment, he is not Muslim, not blessed by Allah, SWT, in any way!

 So when people die murdering innocent non-combatants, they are doomed to hell.  This is for all people who destroy others indiscriminately with bombs and guns. People can call themselves whatever they like:  Muslim, Christian, Jew.  We can just repeatedly say that mass murderers do not qualify for those esteemed titles.
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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b95000 View Drop Down
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Points: 1328 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b95000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2005 at 9:07pm
Originally posted by ozufari ozufari wrote:

A true believer hates for the sake of Allah, and should hate all forms of unjustified killing or injustice no matter who it is perpetrated against. There are way too many narrow-minded imams and 'scholars' who try and justify the taking of innocent life. This attitude will bring only more fighting and more death. We have the tools at our disposal, but we each seem to be working for ourselves in some way. We want to write a book or to become famous scholars. These ideas are great, but the most important thing in life is to fear Allah and do good deeds!


Jehovah Rafa - God our Healer -

Ozufari, you have written such wise and peaceful comments.  I am very encouraged by them.  Thank you.

May the great God bless you and your family and all who read this..


Edited by b95000
Bruce
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b95000 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by herjihad herjihad wrote:

"Oh, and to answer your question about getting into the mind of a terrorist:  No, thank you.  That would be a dark, evil place, and I and other Muslims should not try to understand such evil.  We just need to pray to Allah, SWT, against them and their destructive ways."


Let's ask this another way - why is Islam, at present, being so widely co-opted by so many known terrorists and terrorist organizations?  I don't mean to be provocative - but it's just not enough, any more, to say, we're opposed to these criminals.  How can we prevent them from taking cover in the banner of Faith/Islam?
Bruce
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b95000 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Angela Angela wrote:

This is something that has me curious as well.  I was reading the USA Today about a week ago and saw where a suicide bomber in Iraq swung his bomb laden SUV into a group of school children who were waiting for aid from a Soldier.  Now I understand wanting to fight off the invaders, but that same night I had read a post here on this sight that said it is forbidden for one beliver to kill another.  It seems to me that there are more Iraqi civilians being killed than American soliders.  Truly, what justification is held in killing poor civilian muslims?  Not every American is pro-war, not every American wants our troops there.  Don't think I'm justifying the civilian casualties from either side.  I'm just trying to understand why?  To the mind of the Terrorists, why are civilian targets okay?  There were children and muslims killed on 9/11, and what about their families.  One of the suicide bombers was a father of an 8 month old child, what of his responsibilities to his son???   Why are Imam's who point out that muslims should not kill muslims called traitors?  From and outsider looking in, its so hard to make sense of it.  And its really hard to grasp that Islam is the true religion when people don't even listen to their own laws?  Is killing women and children and poor men looking for work a duty to Islam?  Is the killing of young men by convincing them to blow up themselves in these acts the duty of an Imam?  What makes an Imam, who does he get his authority from?  In my religion, the men can point up the chain to the leader and everyone is accountable to someone?  How is this in Islam?  And is this maybe the problem, too many cooks spoiling the stew?


"To the mind of the Terrorists, why are civilian targets okay?"
Things like this mindset are a slippery slope.  To wit:

First it's killing the invaders, that's OK by 'jihadi' theology!   (Many Muslims actually agree at this level to various extents.  Let's put it this way: this is where most Muslims probably argue the finer points of 'just jihad.'

Then it's killing (all) the infidels (unbelievers/non-Muslims)! 

Then it's killing (all) those (Muslims) who collaborate (in any way, shape or form) with the infidels - even women and children connected with such! 

Then it's killing (all) those (Muslims) who don't want to join us in killing all the infidels!

Then it's killing Muslim children who even collect candy from the infidels.

Do the child killers really think that Muslim children collecting candy present a threat and a collaboration with the infidels?  How truly insane and heinous is that...?

Yes, it's a heinous, sick, slippery slope.

Question is, how do fight back - together?



Edited by b95000
Bruce
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Angela View Drop Down
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herjihad,

Thank you, for your response.  I indeed pray every night that peace will come to the Middle East and for the families who have lost so much. 

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herjihad View Drop Down
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Bismillah,

Islaam is the best religion because Allah, SWT, rejects human blood sacrifices.  It is a religion where men and women are equal in piety before Allah.  Women have had the vote and the voice to speak publicly and own property since the time of our beloved Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.

Allah, our Loving, Generous, Creator will punish wrong doers.  He is neither male nor female.  (We can't say It, because that would be disrespectful.  Nevertheless, "He" is not male.)

Muslims, let's pray against terrroristic behavior from all sources.  People who kill indiscriminately will be punished in hell by our Wrathful Lord.

Oh, and to answer your question about getting into the mind of a terrorist:  No, thank you.  That would be a dark, evil place, and I and other Muslims should not try to understand such evil.  We just need to pray to Allah, SWT, against them and their destructive ways.



Edited by herjihad
Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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