IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Religion - Islam > Islam for non-Muslims
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - How I understand God  What is Islam What is Islam  Donate Donate
  FAQ FAQ  Quran Search Quran Search  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

How I understand God
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Muslim- View Drop Down
Starter
Starter

Male
Joined: 12 September 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Muslim- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How I understand God
    Posted: 12 September 2011 at 8:48am
Originally posted by jonlondon jonlondon wrote:

Thank you all for your time to answer my post.

The reason that I beleive that an afterlife is not as relevant as you suggest is this : consider that it was not the case, that when you die, nothing were to happen, would you then life a life less noble? I would like to think not.



Things are relative. In mathmatics, infinity - 999 trillion, is infinity, and the 999 trillion, is zero next to infinity. This is like this life compared to the afterlife. Sometimes we see this life as the center of existance. Its not, but we sometimes arent humble enough to see that.
Back to Top
jonlondon View Drop Down
Starter
Starter
Avatar
Male
Joined: 04 August 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 6 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonlondon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2011 at 10:43am
Thank you all for your responses. I think when I say good, it is actually in line with what i have read in the Quran. Your arguments of environmental influences on what is right and wrong are valid, and I am not capable of arguing otherwise, but it feels as if there is something deep inside that helps us to decide what is truly good.

We used to have slaves, it was normal, so why would we have abolished slavery and celebrated the fact. Mankind has the ablity to adjust itself, possibly influenced by God in some way.

I understand the argument about giving to a tramp, but that would clearly be a fault on the person rather than their ability to understand what is good. The word intentions is important, and giving to anyone in need is a good intention - the future implications cannot be known.

I feel now that i am a lot closer to Islam and the wonders of the lessons.
Back to Top
hobby View Drop Down
Starter
Starter
Avatar
Male
Joined: 27 August 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2011 at 10:15am
I think one of the points brother Aatif was trying to make is that some of your beliefs about what is good and what is bad has been influenced by the society around you. If you grew up in a society where it was the norm for a husband to offer his wife to a guest for the night, you might believe that one who did not do this was selfish and that doing this is a good and selfless deed if you had never experienced cultures where this would be frowned upon. This is where looking to Allah to tell us what is wrong and what right comes in.

Regarding the importance of the afterlife, if there truly was no afterlife in life as we live it today, then it would be good to be good but then questions would arise as to: What is the meaning of this life? Or why are we even in this world? Why should I be good just for the sake of being good when my worldly life might be better if I was not good? Again, what is good and what is not? Should I defend what I presume to be good even at the risk of losing that single life that I have? And so on...

Now people do good deeds for various reasons: in order to get something back, so that they can be seen as doing good, showing off, conscience, atonement for previously doing something bad... Muslims do good deeds as prescribed to them by Allah. We are encouraged to do these good deeds first and foremost because we love Allah and would like to please Him (and what better way than being good to His other creations and obeying His laws), then we do them because we fear Allah`s wrath and punishment for doing bad deeds, then we do them because we want to enter paradise, then we do them in order not to enter Hell... Infact we are encouraged to have any of these in mind as our intention for doing a good deed because it could be a sin to have a different intention for carrying out a good deed such as pride or showing off or wanting something bad back, such as the case of a man that helps out a woman in need hoping that she will sleep with him. The intention for one`s actions is very important in Islam.

It is almost impossible to carry out an action just for the sake of that action without having any intent or reason for doing that action. Which is why, a person giving money to a beggar `just for the sake of giving or being good` would definitely not be happy and would be regretful to learn that the beggar used that money on drugs or bought a gun and shot someone. As someone that supposedly does good for the sake of good, that person would probably not give the next beggar he or she meets any money because of this previous incident even though the second beggar may be in great need. This is because the person gave the previous beggar so that he or she could feel good about themselves, but because that act resulted in something bad, they now feel bad about themselves because they blame themselves for what happened and hence refuse to give the second beggar any money. This is also in a way selfish. Because a muslim would (or should) have the intention of giving only for the sake of pleasing Allah, his creator, he or she would not use the first incident as a reason for not giving the second beggar money in my example above. I hope that this makes some sense...
Back to Top
aatif View Drop Down
Starter
Starter
Avatar
Male
Joined: 08 August 2011
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aatif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2011 at 3:21am
brother . lets take the example you mentioned where there is no afterlife.
would one lead a less noble life?? But one question which arises out of this is how would you know what is noble and whats not? Do you think that mankind came to know about good and evil just by its own experiences? The answer is NO. Religion was always there since the beginning  of mankind.
I agree some may do good deeds for their own sake and this makes them selfish. But there are those in the world who do really care. one may call the other selfish , greedy or pious but what one really is , only ALLAH knows that. He knows all the secrets of out hearts. It is He who will judge us. Dont you see that this is why this life is a test. You have lived a good life as an agnostic and u didnt need motivation to act in a caring way. You think you have done so by your own will and you have not been motivated. well i would have to say thats wrong . You see the environment which one lives in also has a huge role to play in this. Since childhood you like everyone else must have been taught by the parents about good and evil and you must have had experiences in your own life while growing up. There are billions of people who believe in God and the agnostics and atheists are all surrounded by them. Dont you see that as much as they have denied God they still live by following some if not all the principles of a religion. Consider  from the very beginning    there were only atheists and there was no heavenly law on earth, what would have stopped us from lying, stealing, drinking , adultery etc. people would have even committed adultery  with their mothers and sisters (i am sorry for saying this) I mean what would stop them from doing so? in their minds they would have been answerable to no one and no one could ever tell them that this is forbidden.  
I am sorry again if i have gone too far but i thought that this is the best way it could be explained. feel free to ask questions again brother because like you mentioned it would help one to interpret things more correctly.
Back to Top
mrs shadab View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 16 July 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 57 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mrs shadab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2011 at 5:16am
brother her we living nor for  only our life sake,,but its the rewards that is kept hidden from us by our GOD ALLAH SWT,,life here after is more important than this this for every muslim,cause we r sent here for our judgment,,who i s good and who is not good ,, who fulfillsALLAH commants n who just live his own life according to his mind sets n according to his wishes and according to  his pleasure  n happiness,,ALLAH SWT isour creator and knows each n evry thing about us,,what we wanna do ,what we dont ,what will happen to us and what not ,, all is already written by ALLAH SWT for us,,n all we r doing  is according to that written in lohe mahfooz,,but wer human beings and ALLAH SWT has given us wisdom that what we have to choose for us ,, what is good for us n what is bad for us,, which  thing is gona make our LORD UN HAPPY,n which thing is gonna make our CREATOR   happy ,every thing belongs to ALLAH,,we cant even take asingle breathe with out  HIS  permission.ALLAH swt  has already design a great life style for us,,n this is all n quran  and in the life of our beloved prophet pbuh,, we just have to understand and fulfill these comanments by obeying them all..
Back to Top
Hayfa View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar
Female
Joined: 07 June 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2368 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2011 at 12:30pm
For we Muslims we are aware we are just passing through this world-Dunya- back to our Creator. The afterlife is what is important...

Aatif: he has another post in this section about how he came to be reading the Quran..
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
Back to Top
jonlondon View Drop Down
Starter
Starter
Avatar
Male
Joined: 04 August 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 6 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonlondon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2011 at 5:39am
Thank you all for your time to answer my post.

The reason that I beleive that an afterlife is not as relevant as you suggest is this : consider that it was not the case, that when you die, nothing were to happen, would you then life a life less noble? I would like to think not. I can see my effects on others in this life and would still want to live my life on the right path. To consider you are only doing these good things for your own sake sounds somewhat selfish and takes away from the good deeds that you are actually doing. Please understand that I mean no offence by saying this and am in no way accusing anyone of selfishness, Islam is clearly far from that and i have huge respect for it. But I have also lived a good life as an agnostic as I did not need the motivation of an afterlife to act in a just and caring way.

In regards to questioning, you are right that what is written should be adhered to completely. But surely questioning and doing your best to understand the reasons will help you to become a better person and interpret the lessons for other situations. Without understanding the underlying message are you not more likely to make mistakes?

Back to Top
aatif View Drop Down
Starter
Starter
Avatar
Male
Joined: 08 August 2011
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aatif Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2011 at 2:31pm
May peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you.
I am a Muslim and am happy to see that you have tried to understand Islam by reading the Quran. Brother most of the things you mentioned are inline with Islamic thinking.
you said "Heaven and hell exist in this life, whether an afterlife exists is irrelevant." Brother the only thing relevant is the afterlife. We are muslims only because we desire the best of the afterlife. We will be held accountable in the afterlife on the day of judgement for our every action in this world.�Every one shall taste death�. The life of this world is only the enjoyment of deception (a deceiving thing)� (Quran)(3:185)
you also said "Act according to what you understand to be right and just"
Brother only Quran can teach you what is right because human interpretation of things can sometimes be misleading. Allah never wants you to interpret things incorrectly. That is why he revealed for all mankind The Quran which is light and guidance. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said :Allah has stretched a rope from heaven to earth and this rope is the Quran and if you hold onto it, You will never be misguided.
Brother, the rest of the things you mentioned I believe are mostly inline with islamic thinking. If you have any other questions feel free to ask them.
I have a question for you also. I want to know what made you to live a life of an agnostic and now how you have come near to Islam?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.