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The evil stain
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irichc View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 September 2005 at 5:52pm

Originally posted by DavidC DavidC wrote:

Daniel, your post has me bumfuzzled. It is rather like reading an
explanation of how to put sausages through a meat grinder backwards in
order to produce pigs (please excuse the haram analogy).

Kindly explain your theology from the beginning,

Do you believe in a God, and that "He" made man?

Why might God make such a creature?

Why might he make other creatures, and how do they differ from man?

I can understand what you mean if you start there. And welcome aboard!

When he had not discovered yet he was mortal, man died ever and forever. But, as soon as he realized about it, the imperishable wish of being immortal was born in him. From that wish it follows both the opportunity of its fulfillment, by the means of virtue and obedience to God, and the possibility of failure, by rebelling against Him. Our rational and immortal soul, then, was miraculously produced in us when we desired to possess knowledge of God, and later recreated in every new human conception.

Only those who know they are going to die are rational, since they can picture their life as a whole and, thus, have an ego contrasting with the rest of the world, which turns to be an object. Plus, there is no rationality without judgement; there is no judgement without propositions; and, finally, there are no propositions without a subject (and a predicate). But no one can represent a subject without being himself a subject.

I call this consciousness' awakening a miracle, because it exceeds human forces -you cannot want what you don't understand- and, as far as it's impossible for any irrational creature to approach God without supernatural help, doesn't depend completely on any naturalistic variable.

As for the original sin, Adam and Eve's story points to the future, although it takes the narrative form of a mythical past. It stands for those who, gone astray from God, lose heaven.

Moreover, Burnet wrote:

"And it's likewise evident that in all parts this depravation is the same: As we may thence naturally conclude that depravation is something inherent in our natures, and therefore must have been derived from that common stock from whence all mankind derived their natures".

Cheers.

Daniel.


http://www.miscelaneateologica.tk
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DavidC View Drop Down
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Points: 2474 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DavidC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2005 at 5:42pm
Daniel, your post has me bumfuzzled. It is rather like reading an
explanation of how to put sausages through a meat grinder backwards in
order to produce pigs (please excuse the haram analogy).

Kindly explain your theology from the beginning,

Do you believe in a God, and that "He" made man?

Why might God make such a creature?

Why might he make other creatures, and how do they differ from man?

I can understand what you mean if you start there. And welcome aboard!
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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irichc View Drop Down
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Points: 2 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irichc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2005 at 5:14pm
It's quite obvious that we have somehow fallen in the mud from which we were created. It suffices to admit that a natural law exists to appreciate to what extent is the human kind fulfilling it without coaction -fear or hope- in general terms. We can find this law in the common ground of the main religions of the world. My wife, an ex-Buddhist and a Christian nowadays, explained me about the five precepts that every normal man has to observe in her previous creed: 1) don't kill life, 2) don't steal, 3) don't fornicate, 4) don't lie and 5) don't get drunk. The first four points depend on the last one, understood in a wide sense as keeping your consciousness against passion's attack. This and infinite more, that is to say, every natural moral rule -she added- can be summarized in Christian love.

However, if we redefine the first precept as "don't kill without a fair reason" (for instance, protecting an equal good that we cannot otherwise save), none of them is violated by beasts in most cases. That's admirable and should move us to reflection: they are not rational, but they can satisfy a rational law. Never the less, we do it backwards from them, since we break the moral law continuously, and we would do it more often if there was no law or no custom forcing us to reconsider the benefits of being wicked.

Certainly, the stupid creatures enslaved by us never make a war, and by the way not usually a war to death, but only for defending themselves from imminent dangers, fight with other predators in order to survive or rival with members of the same species when trying to get a female for later reproduction. They don't love any food not coming from their work. There is no hypocrisy in their kind. They avoid vague sex and waste of energy produced by it. They despise every superfluous pleasure.

Thus, we can deduce that, knowing the existence of this eternal law that even beasts are experts with, and being aware of the man, the most rational creature walking on the Earth, infringing it as he was totally ignorant; in regard of the everlasting rule written in our heart that everyone can read, I say, we can infer that something obnubilates our intelligence and moral sense in a permanent way, preventing us of being faithful to it and naturally perfect.

We can find, I don't deny it, animals whose behaviour -regular or sporadic- seem to break natural principles. But they are just the exception confirming the rule, while a good man is an exception for the whole human race. If crime was something unusual and extraordinary, laws wouldn't be needed at all, because law -Latins said- doesn't care about the insignificant.

What is, then, ruining our understanding and making us be beneath wild animals? Might it be our free will? This is similar to blaming knife for the slash. It is not for the sake of our consciousness that we are falling in the sin, but despite of it. Our oppression, then, isn't in the will, as buddhist think; more likely it's previous to its stimulus. Theologians referred to the original sin when designating this shameful prostration. Islam rejects it, and this should be enough to prove this religion wrong. But it is not our commitment now.

Cheers.

Daniel.


Theological Miscellany (in Spanish):

http://www.miscelaneateologica.tk
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