Qibla

Caringheart wrote: Also, apparently Muhammad first had his followers praying in the direction of Syria, and all the evidence supports the first holy place for muslims as Petra.

So tonight I was doing some studying and I learn that Hagar and Ishmael were known to have settled in the wilderness of Paran... in Jordan...
and this previous research jumped to my mind... about the original qibla being to the north...
Jordan... to the north...
Petra... in Jordan...
the wilderness of Paran... in Jordan
This fits with the areas Abraham was known, according to archaeology, to have traveled.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0015_0_15406.html

Hagar and Ishmael are even said to have attended the funeral of Abraham.

caringheart wrote: "The Holy City is described as being surrounded by mountains where people could look down into the city to see the Yemeni elephant attacking the Ka�ba." So were you mistaken in thinking it was Medina that is surrounded by mountains?  Medina is also a Holy city to muslims, is it not?

So you are confused!  Gibson insists that Petra was the site of the Muslim pilgrimage, instead of Mecca not Medina!  Medina is not part of the Hajj. 

Now, Medina was surrounded on three sides by mountains, which is why the Meccan had to attack from the north, and which is why the Muslims dug the trench there. 

By the way, Mt. Abu Qubais is very close to the Kaaba, and it would have been easy to see what was going on when Abraha's army was attacking Mecca. 

carignheart wrote: I also asked; Note:  I'm curious, where do you come up with your evidence of artifacts in Mecca? Has any archaealogical evidence ever been turned up in Mecca?

As I already said, there is evidence of Mecca's importance to Islam, as can be seen in inscriptions of the Quran.  Did you look at the link I provided?

islamispeace wrote: Caringheart wrote: I'm suddenly put in mind of a line I heard in a movie trailer once...... "What if everything you've ever believed was based on a lie?" Wish I knew what movie it came from. I don't know, but it must have been about Christianity

It is true... it is a statement which could be made of any religion.

asalaam,
CH


Edited by Caringheart - 15 October 2014 at 8:15pm

While most people will never read the original academic study, it is hoped that through this review, you will be introduced to the study, and better understand what academics and Muslim scholars are wrestling with.  

Dan Gibson, the author of Qur'anic Geography is a Canadian historian who has spent a life-time studying the history of the Arabian peninsula. He is the author of a dozen books, including The Nabataeans, Builders of Petra, as well as many papers and articles. He may be reached through the forum at www.searchfor-mecca.com

While Muslims are adamant that Mecca was the center of the trade route, modern historians give us a different picture. Dr. Patricia Crone tells us:
�Mecca was a barren place, and barren places do not make natural halts, and least of all when they are found at a short distance from famously green environments. Why should caravans have made a steep descent to the barren lands of  Mecca when they could have stopped at Ta�if?

If the Holy City was such a large city, then it is strange that the name Mecca is missing on early maps.  One would expect that a major merchant city in Arabia would be mentioned in early times. Such maps never claimed to show every village and settlement, but certainly sought to place signifcant and famous cities.
... not one map before 900 AD even mentions Mecca.  Not until 300 years after Muhammad�s death does Mecca appear on any map.