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Corruption and embezzlement

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Maryga View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 December 2005 at 10:38pm
Rezz, have you considered asking those officials who take these "commissions" from you? Perhaps you could provide proof from Islamic teachings about business transactions and ask them why they consider it fair to do such things? I can't answer for Shia countries such as Iran as they have their own weird beliefs but if it is a "Sunni" country maybe you should take the initiative of exposing this sort of behaviour to their police in an anonymous way!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rezz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2005 at 9:20am
Originally posted by rami rami wrote:

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

Our prophet (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) once said there will come a time when a bribe will be called a gift.


Could you please explain what this means?

Does it mean that "Bribes" are seen as "Gifts" in Islamic culture? Is that why there seems to be less stigma for asking for a bribe than stealing an apple?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rezz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 December 2005 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Kirana Kirana wrote:

stealing. definitely haram. and not only that, misusing their position as government officer - which is breaking the trust that the people have placed on them, also grievously wrong.

this also happens in my country. it is sometimes impossible to get things done without it. it's hard to prove each occurrence, though. these people have no shame and should be punished severely, right up to the top people that are involved.



By your country, do you mean the UK or your country of origin?

I ask because I've lived and worked in the UK all my adult life and this type of corruption is almost unheard of here.

Also, I still don't understand why in Islamic cultures, this type of "stealing" is not thought to be as bad as stealing from a shop. Why do I never hear about the terrible punishments given for stealing being handed out to employees who 'steal' commissions?

It seems hypocritical to me...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 December 2005 at 6:50am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

Our prophet (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) once said there will come a time when a bribe will be called a gift.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kirana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 December 2005 at 11:50pm

stealing. definitely haram. and not only that, misusing their position as government officer - which is breaking the trust that the people have placed on them, also grievously wrong.

this also happens in my country. it is sometimes impossible to get things done without it. it's hard to prove each occurrence, though. these people have no shame and should be punished severely, right up to the top people that are involved.

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Maryga View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maryga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 December 2005 at 6:33pm

I have recently read the sunnah from Sahih Muslim in the book of transactions and from my understanding I have no doubt that it is completely wrong on the part of those governments and their employees in taking this commission if it for their personal use. Clearly they are stealing and deserve to be punished. Here is a small extract from the book of transactions and if you want to read the whole here is the link:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim /010.smt.html

In these words addressed by Hadrat Shu'aib to his people, the Holy Qur'an enunciates the fundamental principles of commerce as follows

To give just measure and weight.

Not to withhold from the people the things that are their due.

Not to commit evil on the earth with the intent of doing mischief.

To be contented with the profit that is left with us by God after we have paid other people their due.

We are told in these verses that commerce can flourish under conditions of peace and security. The people are, therefore, warned not to disturb the peace of the land so that there is a free and untrammelled trade between different parts of the world. In commercial relations we are expected to be absolutely just and honest, liberally giving other people their due. We are not to be guilty of selfish greed and not to indulge in profiteering; and we are told that the lawful profit which has God's blessings is the one that we are able to make through perfectly honest dealings with others. The injunctions contained in these Qur'anic verses and found elsewhere in the Holy Book close the door of all dishonest and unjust transactions. We should not forget that justice is a master virtue. If we give others just measure and just weight that tantamounts to saying that we should be fair and just in our dealings.

A careful study of" Kitab al-Buyu`" (the book pertaining to business transactions) will reveal the fact that the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) based business dealings strictly on truth and justice. He has strongly disapproved all transactions which involve any kind of injustice or hardship to the buyer or the seller. He wanted that both, the buyer and the seller, should be truly sympathetic and considerate towards each other. One should not take undue advantage of the simplicity or ignorance of the other. The seller should not think that he has unrestricted liberty to extort as much as possible from the buyer. He has to be just; he should take his own due and give the buyer what is his.

Islam, which condemns every kind of injustice and exploitation in human relations, wants its followers to conduct business in a sublime spirit of justice tempered with human kindness. The conduct of the seller in a transaction should be characterised not only by Insaf (justice), but also by Ihsan (magnanimity)." God will forgive the sins of a Muslim who absolves a fellow-Muslim from a sale-contract not liked by the latter," says the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuayisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 December 2005 at 10:38am
Allah says:"And eat up not one another's property unjustly, nor give bribery to the rulers that you may knowingly eat up a part of the property of others sinfully."Qur'an (2:18)

Abu Hurairah narrated that Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) said:

"Allah curses the bribe giver and the bribe taker in ruling cases."

However, bribes given by a person to take back what rightfully belongs to him, or to ward off an injustice, and which could not be accomplished otherwise, are not included in this type of cursed bribes. On the contrary it is considered means of regaining one's rights.

Bribes nowadays are looked at as a more profitable source of income than some employees' salaries, to the extent that it has become a clause in many companies' budgets under different cover names. It has also corrupted many employees at the expense of their employers, so that the good service (or merchandise) is presented only to the one who gives bribe. As for the others, they are neglected or their service is postponed. Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) has cursed those who participate in this crime, saying:

"Allah's curse be upon the bribe giver and the bribe taker." (Narrated by Ibn Majah)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rezz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 December 2005 at 12:30am
I have a sincere question regarding corruption and embezzlement.

I do business in a number of Muslim countries, in particular the Gulf Arab countries and Iran.

It is standard practice for a Government or company employee to ask for a �commission� to give me a contract, knowing that this  'commission' will be added to the price of the contract and therefore ultimately paid for by the State or company.

This to me seems a clear-cut case of stealing, as much as if the employee had dipped his hand into the State�s or Company's bank-account and taken the money.

Yet in my experience, this type of behaviour (whilst done secretively)  does not seem to have the same shame or stigma among Muslims as say, stealing something from a shop. This is all the more confusing to me because the amount of money concerned is often much higher and the employees are abusing a position of trust which should make it worse.

I read about the severe punishment of thieves under Islamic law yet I am not aware of, for example, amputations being carried out when someone enriches themselves in this way.

Is this type of behaviour Haraam, and what are the sanctions in Islam.

Thanks.
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