Deifying Jesus Violates Revelations 19:10

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   True.  I jumped the gun.  The angel does seem to distinguish between the Messiah and God, but the text here clearly does refer back to the Angel back in chapter 18.  This is not a case of context, but merely tracing a "dangling pronoun" which is unambiguous.

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
Bismarck Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 01 March 2006 Status: Offline Points: 286	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bismarck Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Deifying Jesus Violates Revelations 19:10 Posted: 21 March 2006 at 10:42pm
	True. I jumped the gun. The angel does seem to distinguish between the Messiah and God, but the text here clearly does refer back to the Angel back in chapter 18. This is not a case of context, but merely tracing a "dangling pronoun" which is unambiguous.

fredifreeloader Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 17 February 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 456	Post Options Post Reply Quote fredifreeloader Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 March 2006 at 4:36am
	first of all, *bismarck, the name of the book you quote from is "the revelation",* not "revelations", and your teaching from chap 19: 10 is wrong. the "he" in v.9 is not the voice from the throne of v.5, but the angel of 17: 1, who is with john, showing and interpreting to him the frightening things he is seeing. in v.10 he talks about the testimony of Jesus. if he was Jesus why would he not just say "my testimony"?. but then in v.11 Christ actually appears, clearly indicating that the one with john is not Christ. that it is Christ in v.11 is absolutely clear, for *"his name is called the Word of God"* - v.13. the Word of God is Christ - john 1. the whole thing is repeated in revelation 22: 8,9 - *".....i fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things"* it is the angel doing the shewing 22: 1, and conveying the words of Christ to the apostle in the chapter as to why john would fall down to worship an angel, well who can tell how they would react to such solemn and awesome scenes your linkage of this passage with the idea of the "door" seems very random, i dont know why you have done that, and your confusion is evident in your last statement, namely that Christ is not the Father. it would hardly be orthodox christian teaching to suggest that he was
	for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16

Bismarck Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 01 March 2006 Status: Offline Points: 286	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bismarck Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 March 2006 at 3:48pm
	Revelations 19:10 [Textus Receptus, Scrivener (1894)] 10 AND I FELL BEFORE HIS FEET TO DO HOMAGE TO HIM. AND HE SAYS TO ME, �SEE [THOU DO IT] NOT. FELLOW BONDMAN OF THEE I AM AND BRETHREN OF THY WHO HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS. TO GOD DO HOMAGE. FOR THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY.� Here, the Apostle John tries to bow before the Messiah, as one would normally bow unto Almighty God. The Messiah quickly stops him, saying "Bow (do homage) to God". The Messiah tells us he is "the door" through which Believers enter into the "fold of the sheep" (a metaphor for the "Sons of Light" based on the whiteness of sheep, as contrasted with dark goats and "wolves in sheep's clothing"). John 10 1"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber... 9 "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. See also: John 14:6; Romans 5:2; Ephesians 2:18; Hebrews 10:20 But even so the Messiah also tells us clearly in Revelations 19:10 that, although he be the door to the Father, that yet he is NOT the Father and is no surrogate or substitute for Him, to whom alone we must bow in homage (Mark 10:18). I am very frustrated.