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Star Size Comparison 2
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MIAW View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 November 2019 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@Miaw

Through the 'vastness' of the Universe,(most probably) Allah (God) wants us to realize how infinitesimally  'small' and 'weak' (vulnerable) we are

Can you understand why I object that  in this case he overdid the job?

Yes airmano, I certainly understand why you object... being atheist (or agnostic) means that you never bothered to 'get to search for/know Allah (God)'... or to try and find out about His Power...etc. in fact you don't even believe that He Exists... so yes I can understand why you object (and dare to pass 'judgment' on His Work and His Will).

Allah SWT never overdoes (or underdoes if such word exists) anything. Everything He Does is 'measured' to perfection and 'purposeful', even if it appears to our 'weak' and 'imperfect' (no offence please) brains to be 'random' and 'incomplete'.

Qur'an [13:8]

Chapter (13) sūrat l-raʿd (The Thunder)

Sahih International: Allah knows what every female carries and what the wombs lose [prematurely] or exceed. And everything with Him is by due measure.

Pickthall: Allah knoweth that which every female beareth and that which the wombs absorb and that which they grow. And everything with Him is measured.


Note: I know that you don't believe in The Qur'an... but we do.
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@Miaw

"When you get to believe in the Power of The Almighty Allah SWT (God)... you would never allow yourself to (dare to) question Him (by asking 'Why')"

I think here we are touching the core of the problem...

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Burning Books by the Christians

You are absolutely right that the burning of thousands of Muslim and Jewish books by the christian conquerors can only be considered as utter silliness (They kept the medical books though).
It clearly shows what religiously motivated wars and actions ensue.

Having said so the Andalusian Muslims equally had their own tradition in burning books.  


Airmano
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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1, You have a different attitude to questioning stuff than I. I often ask why?

2, With all the ability of Star Treck, the impossible warp drive, we cannot travel to the nearest galaxy in a million years. All the other galaxies are forever out of our reach no matter what.

3, It would be nice to have the books of old. The destruction of the great library in Alexandria was a very terrible thing. But then the libraries of China probably had more books in them. The present Western science/industry thing has managed with less in the way of vast collections of books untill we decieded to make the biggest ones ever.
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MIAW View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

... So why, if humanity is of any significant interest to God did he bother with such a vast universe? Why have all that stuff out there at all? This galaxy we are in is vast beyond our capacity to truely comprehend...

When you get to believe in the Power of The Almighty Allah SWT (God)... you would never allow yourself to (dare to) question Him (by asking 'Why')... after all, most (well-mannered) people would not dare to ask their parents 'Why'... you would not ask your boss at work 'why'... and you would certainly not dare to ask your superior officer in the Army: 'why'... so how can I question the Almighty Lord Allah SWT (God), Who Created the Multiverse and Beyond?. God Questions us, we don't question Him [see 21:23]. He  Does whatever He Wants[See 22:14].

But... you asked... so I shall attempt to answer.

1) As I said above, we are infinitesimally  'small' (relatively to Universe), however we are 'important' enough to Allah to Provide us with Signs of His Power... that is because He is All-Fair and All-Just... and when you stand to be judged by Him, you will not be able to say:" Oh my Lord, I did not know that you existed... You did not give me any Hints and Signs of your Existence". The Qur'an tells us about such people:

Qur'an [22:105] (with various translations)

Yusuf Ali: And how many Signs in the heavens and the earth do they pass by? Yet they turn (their faces) away from them!

Muhammad Sarwar: There is much evidence (of the existence of God) in the heavens and the earth which they see, but ignore.


Furthermore, you said in your previous post:"I don't see any possible purpose for all those vast number of galaxies out there that are forever far far beyond humanity's ability to get there, even if we had Star Treck Warp drive going many times faster than light. Still just massively too far away..."

Well... Think!... in that case... Whoever has put all these galaxies out there... must have put them for ANOTHER REASON.. 


Therefore, my advice is: Do not be among the people who have been given eyes (and sight)... but don't see the signs of Allah SWT [see Qur'an 7:179]


2) Know that God (Allah) also Creates things so that they may worship Him:

Qur'an [22:18]

Chapter (22) sūrat l-ḥaj (The Pilgrimage)

Sahih International: Do you not see that to Allah prostrates whoever is in the heavens and whoever is on the earth and the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains, the trees, the moving creatures and many of the people? But upon many the punishment has been justified. And he whom Allah humiliates - for him there is no bestower of honor. Indeed, Allah does what He wills.

Pickthall: Hast thou not seen that unto Allah payeth adoration whosoever is in the heavens and whosoever is in the earth, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the hills, and the trees, and the beasts, and many of mankind, while there are many unto whom the doom is justly due. He whom Allah scorneth, there is none to give him honour. Lo! Allah doeth what He will.


And...

Qur'an [62:1]

Chapter (62) sūrat l-jumuʿah (Friday)

Sahih International: Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth is exalting Allah , the Sovereign, the Pure, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

Pickthall: All that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth glorifieth Allah, the Sovereign Lord, the Holy One, the Mighty, the Wise.


And...

Qur'an [17:44]

Chapter (17) sūrat l-isrā (The Night Journey)

Sahih International: The seven heavens and the earth and whatever is in them exalt Him. And there is not a thing except that it exalts [Allah] by His praise, but you do not understand their [way of] exalting. Indeed, He is ever Forbearing and Forgiving.

Pickthall: The seven heavens and the earth and all that is therein praise Him, and there is not a thing but hymneth His praise; but ye understand not their praise. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving.


Note: These are only some of the reasons (behind creating the vast Universe)... There will certainly be other reasons that Allah SWT (God) Knows.

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

...
So you agree that the earth is billions of years old with a natural history going back equally long and that humanity has come out of all that. That there was never a world flood and that the garden of Eden never existed?...

I believe that there are two ways of going about this (and it's up to us, individually or collectively, which way to take):

1) We can (out of stubbornness...etc) think of false and weak theories... and then waste valuable (science) time trying to prove them... by going round and round in circles.

or...

2) We can take the facts Gifted to us (by Allah in the Qur'an)... and use Science as a tool to explore those facts to help us achieve countless advances... This is not just a wish... it has been realized and attained before:

Referring to the burning of more than a million (Islamic/Scientific) books by Christians and Islamophobes, after the fall of Muslim Andalucia (Spain), Nobel laureate French physicist Pierre Curie said: “Only thirty books are left to us (i.e. survived) from Andalucía and we broke the atom into pieces. If we had half of the burnt one million books now, we could travel between different galaxies now”.
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@Miaw

Through the 'vastness' of the Universe,(most probably) Allah (God) wants us to realize how infinitesimally  'small' and 'weak' (vulnerable) we are

Can you understand why I object that  in this case he overdid the job?


The thing is that just this single galaxy is vastly more than is necessary to achieve that.

Your religion, and most of the rest, tell us that this God sent us messages, told us what to do etc.. has created all this for us.

Planted the mountains, holds up the sky all for this world, for us.

Cares about us. Has created heaven for us. Has created hell for us.

Why would he do all the other galaxies if we are such a big deal in this universe?
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Praise and thanks are due to God Almighty.

Thank you for information MIAW,

Yes Allah swt says that in time He swt will show that the Quran is indeed the truth by whats outside and inside of us. In space, in nature even within our bodies (brain) the wonders never cease. 

I think the Quran has from the beginning always, to each generation of muslims, given and shown its the truth. In the time of the companions it was the predictions that came true and the divine nature of the verses in Arabic.

and Allah swt knows best.
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@Miaw

Through the 'vastness' of the Universe,(most probably) Allah (God) wants us to realize how infinitesimally  'small' and 'weak' (vulnerable) we are

Can you understand why I object that  in this case he overdid the job?
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MIAW MIAW wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

... That's the thing; I don't see any possible purpose for all those vast number of galaxies out there that are forever far far beyond humanity's ability to get there, even if we had Star Treck Warp drive going many times faster than light. Still just massively too far away...

That's your answer right there! Star

Through the 'vastness' of the Universe, Allah (God) wants us to realize how infinitesimally  'small' and 'weak' we are, and how 'dependent' we should be on Him... and yet, some of us have the 'guts' to turn around and 'deny' the very existence of God, let alone all the signs that He Created/Gifted for us.


Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

... 1, Science is not a finnished thing. It is on a journey to understand the universe. As it goes along it finds out stuff that allows us to be far more able to do stuff in the world. We have not got to the end of it or even half way to the end. Lots to do...

I agree. We have not even reached the full depth of our oceans here on Earth!.. Nor dug deep enough to reach the Mantle. I see Science as a great 'tool' gifted to us by God in order to achieve all these things and therefore thank and praise Him by at least being 'Grateful'.


So why, if humanity is of any significant interest to God did he bother with such a vast universe? Why have all that stuff out there at all? This galaxy we are in is vast beyond our capacity to truely comprehend.


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Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

... 2, If an idea has got to the theory level it has survived all the attacks and challenges anybody has thought of and not been shown to be at all wrong. Like gravity...

I agree. Well said.

So you agree that the earth is billions of years old with a natural history going back equally long and that humanity has come out of all that. That there was never a world flood and that the garden of Eden never existed?
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