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Prophet Muhammad:Lost In Divine Love. |
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MIAW 
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Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 492 |
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 Topic: Prophet Muhammad:Lost In Divine Love.Posted: 19 September 2020 at 1:29am |
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I am sure that you agree with me that this is unacceptable. You want to present Islam to others... through wrong, made up (fit-for-purpose) translations (with unknown and inexistent authors). People should not have to keep asking you for sources of your quotes... but if they do, then you must give them, otherwise it's a gross misrepresentation of this beautiful religion that is Islam... and you are pinning people down to accept your own views without giving them a chance to go and further check/research.
Oh it does matter! (a great deal!!) ... Islam came with a 'crucial' difference from other religions (practiced at that time): There are strict limits to how high we elevate the Noble Messenger of Allah, Prophet Muhammad, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam. This is the exact problem/mistake that other religions got themselves into: They elevated mere humans to 'Divine' status (to God, Part of God, Son of God...etc)... this is mentioned repeatedly in the Qur'an. The Noble Messenger of Allah, Prophet Muhammad, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, himself warned us about this: Narrated `Umar: I heard the Prophet (ﷺ) saying, "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle." https://sunnah.com/bukhari/60/115 |
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Abu Fauzi
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Posted: 16 September 2020 at 11:56pm |
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Peace to one and all,
Again, about the ayat above, (53:3), I stand by it as explained earlier. You stand by whatever meaning you wish. No matter how high we elevate the Noble Messenger of Allah, Prophet Muhammad, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, which some people object to, I MAINTAIN that we have not seen anything yet of him, alaihi Salaat Wassalaam, but his shadow. We only know Muhammad, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, as the sheath knows the sword....
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MIAW
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Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 492 |
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Posted: 16 September 2020 at 10:36pm |
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But you don't.. do you?!... Please start taking full responsibility by answering the following question that I keep asking (and you keep avoiding)... I really need to know: Whose translation is this?:
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Abu Fauzi
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Joined: 19 August 2009 Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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Posted: 16 September 2020 at 12:16am |
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As-Salaam alaikum,
Lo! When you write, tell or speak of what looks new or 'strange', some tend to say, how does he know?... How do you know?. We know by putting together what Awliyaullah said with what scholars said to know how important the Prophet, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, is in our life. To make tea, you must use tea leaves. Be it as it may, he who thinks or believes I am ignorant over this post which drew so much comments, well, I stand to take full responsibility on it in all respects. And let them be ready to take their own responsibility too. Best Regards. ALLAHUMMA SALLI ALA SSYYADUNA MUHAMMAD, AN-NABI-UMMIY, WA ALA AHLIHI, WA-ASHABIHI AJMA'EEN.
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MIAW
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Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 492 |
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Posted: 15 September 2020 at 3:03am |
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Wa Alaikumus Salam, Nothing 'personal'... and no-one is attacking you... we're all trying to be as 'fair' as possible to anyone reading our posts... by stating exact sources... which (in many cases) you have not been doing.
At least I give the names of the authors of those translations (in case anyone wants to go and check)... You keep giving translations without the author's name... and in other posts people have asked you to provide Hadith sources (and let's face it: why should they have to ask you in the first place??) but you just keep ignoring requests and queries... so here I am asking you again: Whose translation is this? (especially in bold):
No one is trying to pin you down to any translation... just give the exact sources and authors of anything that you quote... like we all have to do.
He, ﷺ, is the best of all creation... As Muslims, we love him more than anything or anybody else that has ever existed (including our own families, parents, children..)... however you have to be very careful using words such as 'Divine', 'Heavenly', 'Equivalent' (to Allah's attributes).
You contradict yourself... too much 'philosophy'... on the one hand (above, in blue) you say he is a man... and on the other hand (above, in blue) you say If he was really a human being... Not only you are confusing yourself, but others as well! (and hence giving wrong messages about Islam)... Make your mind up!... some things are best kept simple.
Here again, I have explained this very point to you in another post... but your brain still cannot 'process' this puzzle!... You cannot 'understand' how a man (which is how you described him above) can rise above and beyond 40,000 feet without exploding/imploding!!... so your only explanation to this phenomenon is that he, ﷺ must have Divine and God-like powers and abilities in order to withstand the immense pressure...etc better than a 'plane'! (how naive!)... However, you are forgetting/cancelling the role of the One and Only Being Who has caused this whole trip/Ascension feel extremely easy... namely Allah SWT... the whole trip/Ascension was made possible by the Will of Allah alone... none of it was by any power or ability possessed by the prophet ﷺ. Anyone who believes in the Qur'an, automatically believes that: ...Allah is Able to do all things... Qur'an [65:12] (Pickthall) and therefore should never be puzzled by the above scenario/phenomenon. Unfortunately, many sects in the history of Islam (as well as other religions), have fallen into the same mistake (of trying to use the weak 'human' logical reasoning to explain phenomenons that only Allah SWT is Capable of)... and therein lies the problem. Other Prophets and Messengers 'AlaihimusSallam, also performed great miracles... but none claimed any divine attributes... Divine attributes are for Allah alone... He does not share them with anyone or anything... this is the essence of Laa Ilaaha Illal-Laah. DO MUSLIMS ATTRIBUTE DIVINITY TO MUHAMMAD?The spectacular event that took place at his death is enough to put all questions related to this issue to rest. When the Prophet passed away, his companions, especially those close to him were reluctant to believe the news. One of the strongest among them who was later to become the second Caliph, Umar Bin Al-Khattab, not only rejected to accept the fact that the Prophet passed away, but even threatened to kill anyone who would spread this “rumour.” But the Prophet’s and Umar’s friend, Abu Bakr , after verifying the earthly demise of the Prophet stood up and declared in the firmest of words, “O people! If anyone of you worships Muhammad, Muhammad is dead. [But] if anyone of you worships God, God is Alive and Immortal.” Abu Bakr then recited the verse that had been revealed to the Prophet after the battle of Uhud, when many Muslims had been shocked by the false rumor of his death: “Muhammad is naught but a Messenger, Messengers had passed away before him. Why, if he should die or is slain, will you turn upon your heels?” Qur'an [3:144] The verses made such an impact on the people that it was as though they were hearing them for the first time. Before his death the Prophet cautioned his followers unequivocally that they should not worship or make idols of him like the followers of other Prophets did. He tirelessly educated them of his mortality and his being a man, except that he is the Messenger of God. The Qur’an unequivocally states: “Say [O Prophet]: “I am but a mortal man like all of you” (18:110). The Qur’an repeats this point several times. He prohibited building a place of worship on top of his grave. The Prophet in fact was buried in his apartment, which was attached to the main mosque of Medina. It still remains attached to that same mosque, and while Muslims visit the mosque and pray in it, they only visit his grave and send benedictions upon him. They do not pray to him for any benefit because doing so is strictly forbidden in Islam. Source: http://mercyprophet.org/mul/node/3317 ; After reading the above 2 verses of the Qur'an, who in their right mind would still dare to assign divinity (or even just use the word 'divine') to the Messenger of Allah,ﷺ.?? And finally: When talking/thinking about Allah SWT or His Messenger ﷺ, the safest way is to limit oneself to saying what we have been told in the Qur'an and authentic Hadith... without adding too much interpretation/philosophy (fancy talk, like other religions have done). |
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Abu Fauzi
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Joined: 19 August 2009 Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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Posted: 10 September 2020 at 2:42pm |
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As-Salaam alaykum, Regarding the post above I was privileged to put together/send, a Senior Member of the Forum, MIAW, accused me of Shirk, twisting the Qur'an, false inspiration etc For one moment, MIAW's insults did not bother me as this is not the first time I suffered his attacks. The post in question was/is about presenting the high status of Prophet Muhammad, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, ... who during his earthly life functioned as the projection of the Divine Message embodied in the Qur'an. At the risk of incurring secularists attacks, I repeat and state that the Holy Prophet Muhammad, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, was the living commentary of the Qur'an, inextricably related to the revelatory text. Without him, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, the Qur'an was incomprehensible, just as without the Qur'an the Prophet was no Prophet at all. The ayats or verses of the Holy Qur'an I quoted and commented upon are:-- (1) Surat Anfal (8:17) (2) Surat Najm (53:3) and (3) Suart Nisa'i (4:80) My translation, commentary on above ayats in the post attracted harsh criticism, but I stand by what I posted. This is because:-- Even with Pickthall, Yusuf Ali, Aberry's translations, along with others MIAW did not mention, I hold that even if man or humanity were to receive a thousand degrees of understanding of EACH letter of the Holy Qur'an, this would not exhaust all the MEANINGS contained in the Qur'an... infact, it wouldn't exhaust the meaning of one ayat!! The Qur'an is the Word of Allah Ta'ala, therefore, it is the image of Allah Himself: infinite and uncreated. So, how can MIAW pin us to his own understanding of the verses of the Qur'an or to those translations he chooses? And Yes, we too cannot pin him to our own understanding. The Qur'an is an endless Ocean whose shore and depth cannot be found. With this, it is unfair to accuse someone of Shirk simply because he lays out/down his understanding of an ayat. "Wa Fawqa Kulli zi ilmin aleem- Above every knower is a higher knower" (12:76) And about the Holy Prophet, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, I re-state here that Muhammad, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, is a man, but not like you, I or like other men! He is a gem while human beings are stones... He is jewel while people are rocks. Is a rock like a jewel? No, it is a different substance. I put it to you that you should never think or assume that the Prophet, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, is a human being like you and I or like others. If he was really a human being and without being dressed with Heavenly dress, how could he, alaihi salaat was-salaam, move through this atmosphere to reach Qaba Qawsayni aw Adna? If you go higher than 40,000 feet, a plane can't take it, but during the 'Isra wal Me'iraj the Prophet, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, did not use a space shuttle, and he went beyond the Universe. Whenever he focused on his human zahiri (outward) manifestation, the Prophet, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, used to say: "I am a human being like you", but when he focused on his batini haqiqat (inward realities), he used to say: "I am not like any of you, I dwell with my Lord at the hearts of veiled nights and He nourishes me". (Bukhari and Muslim)
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MIAW
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Islam Joined: 17 January 2018 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 492 |
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Posted: 31 August 2020 at 1:11am |
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This 'SHIRK' is exactly what our Prophet ﷺ warned us about... you are busy making the same mistake made by other religions that came before Islam: They went to such 'extremes' in venerating mere humans, until they gave them Divine attributes Wal 'iyadhu Billah... and then they started worshiping them! (as gods, part of god,son of god...etc).
Think carefully...this verse (when you look at a genuine correct translation, and not this 'twisted' version of yours) is showing that Allah ﷻ is 'DISTINCT' from His Prophet ﷺ , and not 'merged with him into one entity' as you are trying to make us believe. If you actually take time to look into this verse, you'll find that the first 'You' is different from the 2nd and 3rd 'you'. The first one is addressing the 'believers', and the 2nd and 3rd are addressing Prophet Muhammad ﷺ Your understanding of the Quranic verses should stem from the understanding of the Prophet ﷺ , his companions رضي الله عنهم, and the countless mainstream scholars رحمهم الله that existed in the past 15 centuries... it should not come from your whims, desires and false inspirations.
DELIBERATE FALSE TRANSLATION! (and hence False interpretation) Who 'concocted' this translation for you? or maybe it's DIY? Here's the correct one (by various known translators): Qur'an [53:3] Sahih International: Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. Pickthall: Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire. Yusuf Ali: Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire. Shakir: Nor does he speak out of desire. Muhammad Sarwar: He does not speak out of his own desires. Mohsin Khan: Nor does he speak of (his own) desire. Arberry: nor speaks he out of caprice. Qur'an [53:4] Sahih International: It is not but a revelation revealed, Pickthall: It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired, Yusuf Ali: It is no less than inspiration sent down to him: Shakir: It is naught but revelation that is revealed, Muhammad Sarwar: It is a revelations which has been revealed to him Mohsin Khan: It is only an Inspiration that is inspired. Arberry: This is naught but a revelation revealed, Where does it say (or even imply that): "his speech is the speech of Allah"?
Astaghfirullah! Playing with words like this is 'equivalent' to playing with fire! Again, way off target... the verse tells us that Allah ﷻ has sent us instructions to obey... and He sent these instructions with a Messenger who will show us (by example) how to obey them... Equivalence between Allah ﷻ and His Prophet ﷺ does not even come into it! If I was you, I would certainly avoid using the term 'Equivalent' in the same sentence as the term 'Allah' ﷻ (unless it is accompanied with negation): Qur'an [112:4]: Chapter (112) sūrat l-ikhlās (Sincerity)
Sahih International: Nor is there to Him any equivalent." The rest of your post above treads along the same lines: you take verses and hadiths and twist them in order to imply that the Prophet ﷺ is Divine (i.e. a GOD! or part/equivalent to a god)... Next you'll tell us that he ﷺ is worthy of worship! I shall stop here, to give a chance to other brothers and sisters to present you with Verses and Hadiths that show that the Messenger ﷺ is a mere human. |
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Abu Fauzi
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Joined: 19 August 2009 Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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Posted: 29 August 2020 at 6:14am |
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As-Salaam alaikum,
Just as when a piece of iron when exposed and immersed in tremendous heat of fire annihilates its own identity and becomes lost in the color and quality of fire, similarly the Messenger of Allah, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, lost his own self-hood in the fire of Divine Love, and attained to his highest degree of Khilafat... and through him, the Attributes of Allah Ta'ala were/are made manifest. Therefore, his seeing, hearing, doing and speaking are that of the Divine's. That is why Allah says about the Prophet:-- "You did not slay them, and in no way did you throw when you threw, but Allah threw." (8:17) "The Prophet doesn't speak out of his own volition, his speech is the speech of Allah". (53:3) Through the Prophet, Allah's beautiful Names and Attributes were manifested fully, that is why following the Prophet, alaihi salat was Salaam, is made equivalent of following Allah, where the Qur'an declares:-- "He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah" (4:80) Also, by Allah's bestowal, the Prophet, Sallallahu alaihi Wasallam, had within himself manifest the Divine Attributes that are supernatural from ordinary human standard... for example, he said:-- "Allah has folded the entire earth in front of me. So I can simultaneously observe everything from its east to its west." (Muslim) and "Allah has placed this worldly manifestation in such a mysterious way in front of my eyes that whatever will be created until the Day of Judgement, I can see them as if they are on top of my palm." (Tabrani) From this, we deduce that from the subtlety of his haqiqa, space and time boundaries are made null and void, everything is made present simultaneously. Allah's mystical endowments) to the Prophet are in his power of hearing and seeing. That is why he said:- "I can see what you cannot see, I can hear what you cannot hear". (Ahmad and Tirmidhii).
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