Mormon Hym About the Planet Gd was Born?

herjihad wrote: Your defensive posturing is very interesting.The point is the hym and the theological implication of the Mormon Church. Whatever else you want to try and deduce from it would be a waste of time, which you are welcome to do. And you could do a search on the topic if you so pleased. If you do not, then you also have the option to not read any thread with information that is theologically interesting dealing with the LDS. That would be an easier option. Bismillah, Why are you discussing Mormon theological differences with Islam when YOU are not a MORMON?

Why are you on this forum discussing the topic of Christianity when you are not a Christian?

I give you your question in different terms to show how "odd" it is.

herjihad wrote:  Is it because it bothers you that we have a Christian Mormon on this forum who shows respect for Muslims?

Your powers of deduction are somewhat interesting. Please, could you show me just how you were able to deduce all that from what I posted. Thanks.

Kolob is not where god was born.....Ugh, I love how stupid non Mormons take Kolob completely out of context.  Kolob is not where God is born.  Kolob is the planet closest to the Throne of God.  (IE Pious and Faithful)

THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM
TRANSLATED FROM THE PAPYRUS, BY JOSEPH SMITH

CHAPTER 3

Abraham learns about the sun, moon, and stars by means of the Urim and Thummim�The Lord reveals to him the eternal nature of spirits�He learns of pre-earth life, foreordination, the creation, the choosing of a Redeemer, and the second estate of man.

1 AND I, Abraham, had the Urim and Thummim, which the Lord my God had given unto me, in Ur of the Chaldees;

2 And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;

3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord�s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob.

5 And the Lord said unto me: The planet which is the lesser light, lesser than that which is to rule the day, even the night, is above or greater than that upon which thou standest in point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow; this is in order because it standeth above the earth upon which thou standest, therefore the reckoning of its time is not so many as to its number of days, and of months, and of years.

6 And the Lord said unto me: Now, Abraham, these two facts exist, behold thine eyes see it; it is given unto thee to know the times of reckoning, and the set time, yea, the set time of the earth upon which thou standest, and the set time of the greater light which is set to rule the day, and the set time of the lesser light which is set to rule the night.

7 Now the set time of the lesser light is a longer time as to its reckoning than the reckoning of the time of the earth upon which thou standest.

8 And where these two facts exist, there shall be another fact above them, that is, there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still;

9 And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord�s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

10 And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God.

11 Thus I, Abraham, talked with the Lord, face to face, as one man talketh with another; and he told me of the works which his hands had made;

12 And he said unto me: My son, my son (and his hand was stretched out), behold I will show you all these. And he put his hand upon mine eyes, and I saw those things which his hands had made, which were many; and they multiplied before mine eyes, and I could not see the end thereof.

13 And he said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me: Kokob, which is star. And he said unto me: Olea, which is the moon. And he said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven.

14 And it was in the night time when the Lord spake these words unto me: I will multiply thee, and thy seed after thee, like unto these; and if thou canst count the number of sands, so shall be the number of thy seeds.

15 And the Lord said unto me: Abraham, I show these things unto thee before ye go into Egypt, that ye may declare all these words.

16 If two things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them; therefore Kolob is the greatest of all the Kokaubeam that thou hast seen, because it is nearest unto me.

17 Now, if there be two things, one above the other, and the moon be above the earth, then it may be that a planet or a star may exist above it; and there is nothing that the Lord thy God shall take in his heart to do but what he will do it.

18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal.

19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.

20 The Lord thy God sent his angel to deliver thee from the hands of the priest of Elkenah.

21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.

22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;

23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

25 And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him.

Edited by Angela

herjihad wrote: Bismillah, Funny.  I never sang that one in Sunday School.  Of course, there were many others like:  Onward Christian Soldiers... What's your point?  I guess we could do a search on Mormonism if we need any more information on the topic.

Your defensive posturing is very interesting.The point is the hym and the theological implication of the Mormon Church. Whatever else you want to try and deduce from it would be a waste of time, which you are welcome to do.

And you could do a search on the topic if you so pleased. If you do not, then you also have the option to not read any thread with information that is theologically interesting dealing with the LDS. That would be an easier option.

herjihad wrote:   P.S.  I do consider Mormons Christians.  Please get off your bandwagon thinking that if you repeat a thing over and over again that it makes it true.

I am pleased you think Mormons are Christians. Although this theological tid bit would devistate main stream Christianity. So I have no problem with "orthodox" Christians saying that they (LDS) are not "orthodoxy". I have no problem if they concur with LDS theology either, as it would be detrimental to the "orthodoxy". The theolgical implication of the hym, which is derived upon early Mormon belief is actualy very inetresting, and it is a "tid bit" obscured by the elders in white shirts who are looking for converts.

 

George wrote: Andalus wrote: This is an actual hym that is sung by Mormons. A friend of mine who was raised in the church of LDS and then finally left them after 30 years told me about Kolob, where they believe Gd originated from. Regardless of what the Mormon church expresses in open as their theology when it comes to gaining converts, one can still find their core theology in hyms and writings by B. Young.   If You Could Hie to KOLOB   If you could hie to Kolob in the twinkling of an eye,       And then continue onward with the speed of light to fly**,       D'ye think that you could ever, through all eternity,       Find out the generation where Gods began to be?   Or see the grand beginning, where space did not extend?       Or view the last creation where Gods and matter end?       Methinks the Spirit whispers, "No man has found 'pure space',"       Nor seen the outside curtains, where nothing has a place.   The works of God continue, and worlds and lives abound;       Improvement and progression have one eternal round.       There is no end to matter; there is no end to space;       There is no end to spirit; there is no end to race. **   Revision 6-8-2002 Is there a question in there somewhere?  Mormons are not considered Orthodox Christians, in case you didn't know.

You did not see a question because I did not form one in the content. Also, I did not imply anything about Christianity in general nor did I put anything in the content that would allow one to deduce any implication or sweeping generlaization.