The Crucifixion of Jesus

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Mishmish

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 01 November 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1694

Topic: The Crucifixion of Jesus
Posted: 17 May 2006 at 2:22pm

***THIS TOPIC IS BEING CLOSED***

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)

Alibaba

Guest Group

Joined: 19 April 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 134

Posted: 17 May 2006 at 2:20pm

Angela is quite correct. This Abrah fellow really needs some admonitions. Can't he debate without everyone differing in opinion from him being called a liar or threatened? He's done it to me, and to Patty as well. For instance, in his latest diatribe he states:

***Edited***

Edited by Mishmish

Angela

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 11 July 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2555

Posted: 17 May 2006 at 2:10pm

Mishmish, Peacemaker, Khadija, Adji, anyone

Please, please, please....this is not an interfaith discussion. This man cannot be engaged without him returning with insults. Please issue a warning, edit posts or close the topic????

1. We manage here an Islamic discussion board, thus all members are requested to maintain the decorum as per the standards of an Islamic cultural society. Any joke, or casual statement which the moderators find insensitive, may result in edition or deletion.

2. A generally pleasant demeanor and cordiality in language is requested during discussions.

7. We request you to always choose a topic for your message, and take care that it is not obscene, provocative or insolent.

10. We will not tolerate personal attacks on participants from ANY Community (personal attacks are defined as comments that reflect upon the person instead of their opinion). Furthermore, any insults intended to ANY religion or ANY prophet of God, or ANY holy scripture shall be removed.

11. Slanderous, defamatory, obscene, indecent, lewd, pornographic, violent, abusive, insulting, threatening and harassing comments are not tolerated. ALL comments by the person who adopts such a manner may be removed and the person will lose the privilege of participating in the forums in future. We will try to block attempts from the same person to sign up with a different name as well.

18. If any board member is found inadequate in observing any of the above rules, he/she may be prompted once, twice or thrice by the moderators before denying him/her all access to discussion boards in future.

19. Removing (Deleting) a User's ID and Posts: In general, we, the Moderators/Administrators, do not want to remove/delete user-id's. We will not remove a user id unless all posts under this user id have been removed and we receive a request from that user to then remove the id. Administrators and moderators will not "help" to remove your posts, you are responsible for removing/deleting on your own. So please keep this in mind and post wisely, so you won't be haunted by your own posts later on. Administrators and moderators also will not "help" to remove your watch list subscriptions.

Alibaba

Guest Group

Joined: 19 April 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 134

Posted: 17 May 2006 at 2:02pm

Abrah, you really need to get back on your medication. You are not debating, you are screaming and using provocative language. Do you think that this in any way deminishes in people's eyes the faith you claim to defend?

AbRah2006

Guest Group

Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 354

Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:45pm

Patty's statement: And that is how it is with "tree" and "cross" -- the exact same object, two different words used to describe it. Historically, it was a tree made into a cross

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

***Edited***

What is a tree?

Perennial woody plant with a single main stem (the trunk, or bole) from which branches and twigs extend to form a characteristic crown of foliage. In general, a tree differs from a shrub in that it has a single trunk, it reaches a greater height at maturity, it branches at a greater distance from the ground, and it increases in size by producing new branches and expanding in girth while a shrub often produces new shoots from ground level. Trees fall into three major divisions: angiosperms, gymnosperms, and pteridophytes. Angiosperms are the most common type, where seeds carried in various fruits are the agents of reproduction. Trees and shrubs may be deciduous, with broad leaves that are shed at the end of the growing season, or evergreen (see conifer), with needlelike or scalelike leaves that are shed at intervals of between 2 and 10 years, thus maintaining green foliage at all seasons. Trees are identified both by the characteristic color and shape of the leaf and by their overall appearance, e.g., the degree and angle of branching, the shape of the crown, and the texture of the bark. Their age can be determined from a count of the annual rings, which represent the diameter growth of a tree each year. Besides their enormous importance in providing oxygen and moisture for the atmosphere and removing harmful carbon dioxide, trees are an important source of food, of wood, and of numerous products (e.g., resins, rubber, quinine, turpentine, and cellulose for the manufacture of paper and various synthetic materials) derived from their wood, bark, leaves, and fruits.

What about the cross? The cross does not has the characteristics of a tree so the cross is not a tree!

Patty please go to your doctor to check your brain and mind! And please check your five senses too !

Edited by Mishmish

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)

Angela

Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 11 July 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 2555

Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:41pm

George,

Don't worry. AbRah is resorting to personal insults and attacks because he's upset his arguements are getting picked apart so easily. I know God loves all his children. Every last one. Even if he's disappointed in us when we sin. Jesus taught love and kindness and respect, no matter what religion you claim as your own. AbRah, has obviously missed these most important teachings.

And AbRah,

***Edited***

Judgement belongs to God only, you can't tell anyone what God will decide as their fate, for only he knows their truest intentions.

Edited by Mishmish

Alibaba

Guest Group

Joined: 19 April 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 134

Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:38pm

AbRah, Abby, etc.: you are quoting from the website George referred to - in fact, complete with underlinings. Please, try to think for yourself if you aren't too far gone duck.

Why are you trying to use character assasination against George - he seems like a very nice chap to me, and quite knowledgeable as well. Can't you engage in debate like a gentleman?

AbRah2006

Guest Group

Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 354

Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:27pm

George's statement:

God loves me. I am in God's hands and he will never let me go. I am a child of God and I am his own and he loves me so much that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

I think God would be proud of my behavior as it is He would helps me answer your allegations against his Holy Bible.

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

My response to refute George:

Christians like George claim that what is unique in the case of Jesus, is that he is the only begotten Son of God , while the others are merely �sons of God�. However, God is recorded as saying to Prophet David, in Psalms 2:7, �I will tell the decree of the Lord: He said to me, �You are my son, today I have begotten you.� � .....What does this contradiction mean? It means that that Christians like George, the OT and NT are the liars for slandering Jesus, David and God! The OT and NT are corrupt and immoral!

It should also be noted that nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus actually call himself �Son of God�. Instead, he is recorded to have repeatedly called himself �Son of man� (e.g. Luke 9:22) innumerable times. And in Luke 4:41, he actually rejected being called �Son of God�: �And demons also came out of many, crying, �You are the Son of God!� But he rebuked them, and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.�

In the New Testament Book of Acts, there are several outlines of speeches of the early disciples of Jesus, speeches which date from the year 33 CE, almost forty years before the Four Gospels were written. In one of these discourses, Jesus is referred to specifically as andra apo tou theou: �a man from God.� (Acts 2:22). Not once do these early confessions of faith use the expression wios tou theou: �Son of God�, but they do speak several times of Jesus as God�s servant and prophet (Acts 3:13, 22, 23, 26).

Jesus is not the son of God for Jesus is the son of Mary. That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing. He but says to it "Be". and it is. (Quran 19:34-5).

The Bible itself calls Jesus the son of man so many times throughout the Bible to prove that Jesus is a human being.

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

George's statement:

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

My response to George's wild claim:

How do you know that God loves you when you have slandered him by saying that He has a begotten son and you claim falsely that you are His child? Aren't you ashamed of yourself for claiming that you are His child when you sin everyday? God is sinless but you are sinful so you cannot be the child of God!

According to Jesus, Moses and Muhammad , God is One and Only and God says that there is none like Him and there is none beside Him so God has no sons and the Trinity is a false doctrine that says God is One in Three.

Moses said "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." (Deuteronomy 6:4) ...Moses doesn't say that God is One in Three!

Jesus said "...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29).

And the prophet Muhammad said "And your God is One God: There is no God but He, ..." (The Qur'an 2:163)

Moses, Jesus and Muhammad did not say that God was One in Three!

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent"(Numbers 23:19 & 20)...God is not a man so human beings are neither His children nor His sons!

Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me....None is like God so human beings are not the sons of God for God is not like human beings!

Quran chapter 112, :� In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Say (O Muhammad), He is God, the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone�.

***Edited*** Abrah, this type of post will not be allowed. You will not be warned again. Failure to comply with the Guidelines will result in you being banned from this Forum.***

Edited by Mishmish

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)

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Mishmish Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1694	Topic: The Crucifixion of Jesus Posted: 17 May 2006 at 2:22pm
	*THIS TOPIC IS BEING CLOSED*
	It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)

Alibaba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 19 April 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 134	Posted: 17 May 2006 at 2:20pm
	Angela is quite correct. This Abrah fellow really needs some admonitions. Can't he debate without everyone differing in opinion from him being called a liar or threatened? He's done it to me, and to Patty as well. For instance, in his latest diatribe he states: *Edited* Edited by Mishmish

Angela Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555	Posted: 17 May 2006 at 2:10pm
	Mishmish, Peacemaker, Khadija, Adji, anyone Please, please, please....this is not an interfaith discussion. This man cannot be engaged without him returning with insults. Please issue a warning, edit posts or close the topic???? *1. We manage here an Islamic* discussion board, thus all members are requested to maintain the decorum as per the standards of an Islamic cultural society.** Any joke, or casual statement which the moderators find insensitive, may result in edition or deletion. 2. A generally pleasant demeanor and cordiality in language is requested during discussions. 7. We request you to always choose a topic for your message, and take care that it is not obscene, provocative or insolent. 10. We will not tolerate personal attacks on participants from ANY Community (personal attacks are defined as comments that reflect upon the person instead of their opinion). Furthermore, any insults intended to ANY religion or ANY prophet of God, or ANY holy scripture shall be removed. 11. Slanderous, defamatory, obscene, indecent, lewd, pornographic, violent, abusive, insulting, threatening and harassing comments are not tolerated. ALL comments by the person who adopts such a manner may be removed and the person will lose the privilege of participating in the forums in future. We will try to block attempts from the same person to sign up with a different name as well. 18. If any board member is found inadequate in observing any of the above rules, he/she may be prompted once, twice or thrice by the moderators before denying him/her all access to discussion boards in future. 19. Removing (Deleting) a User's ID and Posts: In general, we, the Moderators/Administrators, do not want to remove/delete user-id's. We will not remove a user id unless all posts under this user id have been removed and we receive a request from that user to then remove the id. Administrators and moderators will not "help" to remove your posts, you are responsible for removing/deleting on your own. So please keep this in mind and post wisely, so you won't be haunted by your own posts later on. Administrators and moderators also will not "help" to remove your watch list subscriptions.

Alibaba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 19 April 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 134	Posted: 17 May 2006 at 2:02pm
	Abrah, you really need to get back on your medication. You are not debating, you are screaming and using provocative language. Do you think that this in any way deminishes in people's eyes the faith you claim to defend?

AbRah2006 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 13 May 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 354	Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:45pm
	Patty's statement: And that is how it is with "tree" and "cross" -- the exact same object, two different words used to describe it. Historically, it was a tree made into a cross ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ *Edited* What is a tree? Perennial woody plant with a single main stem (the trunk, or bole) from which branches and twigs extend to form a characteristic crown of foliage. In general, a tree differs from a shrub in that it has a single trunk, it reaches a greater height at maturity, it branches at a greater distance from the ground, and it increases in size by producing new branches and expanding in girth while a shrub often produces new shoots from ground level. Trees fall into three major divisions: angiosperms, gymnosperms, and pteridophytes. Angiosperms are the most common type, where seeds carried in various fruits are the agents of reproduction. Trees and shrubs may be deciduous, with broad leaves that are shed at the end of the growing season, or evergreen (see conifer), with needlelike or scalelike leaves that are shed at intervals of between 2 and 10 years, thus maintaining green foliage at all seasons. Trees are identified both by the characteristic color and shape of the leaf and by their overall appearance, e.g., the degree and angle of branching, the shape of the crown, and the texture of the bark. Their age can be determined from a count of the annual rings, which represent the diameter growth of a tree each year. Besides their enormous importance in providing oxygen and moisture for the atmosphere and removing harmful carbon dioxide, trees are an important source of food, of wood, and of numerous products (e.g., resins, rubber, quinine, turpentine, and cellulose for the manufacture of paper and various synthetic materials) derived from their wood, bark, leaves, and fruits. What about the cross? The cross does not has the characteristics of a tree so the cross is not a tree! Patty please go to your doctor to check your brain and mind! And please check your five senses too ! Edited by Mishmish
	God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)

Angela Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555	Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:41pm
	George, Don't worry. AbRah is resorting to personal insults and attacks because he's upset his arguements are getting picked apart so easily. I know God loves all his children. Every last one. Even if he's disappointed in us when we sin. Jesus taught love and kindness and respect, no matter what religion you claim as your own. AbRah, has obviously missed these most important teachings. And AbRah, *Edited* Judgement belongs to God only, you can't tell anyone what God will decide as their fate, for only he knows their truest intentions. Edited by Mishmish

Alibaba Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 19 April 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 134	Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:38pm
	AbRah, Abby, etc.: you are quoting from the website George referred to - in fact, complete with underlinings. Please, try to think for yourself if you aren't too far gone duck. Why are you trying to use character assasination against George - he seems like a very nice chap to me, and quite knowledgeable as well. Can't you engage in debate like a gentleman?

AbRah2006 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 13 May 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 354	Posted: 17 May 2006 at 1:27pm
	George's statement: God loves me. I am in God's hands and he will never let me go. I am a child of God and I am his own and he loves me so much that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. I think God would be proud of my behavior as it is He would helps me answer your allegations against his Holy Bible. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ My response to refute George: Christians like George claim that what is unique in the case of Jesus, is that he is the only begotten Son of God , while the others are merely �sons of God�. However, God is recorded as saying to Prophet David, in Psalms 2:7, �I will tell the decree of the Lord: He said to me, �You are my son, today I have begotten you.� � .....What does this contradiction mean? It means that that Christians like George, the OT and NT are the liars for slandering Jesus, David and God! The OT and NT are corrupt and immoral! It should also be noted that nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus actually call himself �Son of God�. Instead, he is recorded to have repeatedly called himself �Son of man� (e.g. Luke 9:22) innumerable times. And in Luke 4:41, he actually rejected being called �Son of God�: �And demons also came out of many, crying, �You are the Son of God!� But he rebuked them, and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.� In the New Testament Book of Acts, there are several outlines of speeches of the early disciples of Jesus, speeches which date from the year 33 CE, almost forty years before the Four Gospels were written. In one of these discourses, Jesus is referred to specifically as andra apo tou theou: �a man from God.� (Acts 2:22). Not once do these early confessions of faith use the expression wios tou theou: �Son of God�, but they do speak several times of Jesus as God�s servant and prophet (Acts 3:13, 22, 23, 26). Jesus is not the son of God for Jesus is the son of Mary. That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing. He but says to it "Be". and it is. (Quran 19:34-5). *The Bible itself calls Jesus the son of man so many times throughout the Bible to prove that Jesus is a human being.* ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ George's statement: God loves me. I am in God's hands and he will never let me go. I am a child of God and I am his own and he loves me so much that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ My response to George's wild claim: How do you know that God loves you when you have slandered him by saying that He has a begotten son and you claim falsely that you are His child? Aren't you ashamed of yourself for claiming that you are His child when you sin everyday? God is sinless but you are sinful so you cannot be the child of God! According to Jesus, Moses and Muhammad , God is One and Only and God says that there is none like Him and there is none beside Him so God has no sons and the Trinity is a false doctrine that says God is One in Three. *Moses said "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord."* (Deuteronomy 6:4) ...Moses doesn't say that God is One in Three! Jesus said "...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29). And the prophet Muhammad said "And your God is One God: There is no God but He, ..." (The Qur'an 2:163) Moses, Jesus and Muhammad did not say that God was One in Three!** "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent"(Numbers 23:19 & 20)...God is not a man so human beings are neither His children nor His sons! Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me....None is like God so human beings are not the sons of God for God is not like human beings! Quran chapter 112, :� In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Say (O Muhammad), He is God, the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone�. *Edited* Abrah, this type of post will not be allowed. You will not be warned again. Failure to comply with the Guidelines will result in you being banned from this Forum.*** Edited by Mishmish
	God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)