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Jesus = God’s Word

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BMZ View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 May 2006 at 3:38am

Greetings, Mirium & welcome.

"bm:  Of course, Muslims would have to disagree with Jefferson, since the Quran denies that he died, and therefore could not have been laid in a tomb."

I meant that Jefferson stopped at that point and left out all about resurrection, which he might have thought was redundant. George and Abednego know me well.

Yes, as a Muslim, regarding Jesus, not only do I disagree with my Christian friends but I would also disagree with Jefferson. But I would like to add that Jefferson was a smart guy. I think he really read the NT too much.



Edited by bmzsp
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Miriam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2006 at 12:14pm
bm:  Of course, Muslims would have to disagree with Jefferson, since the Quran denies that he died, and therefore could not have been laid in a tomb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2006 at 8:05am

Abed,

"Jefferson entitled his creation The Life and Morals of Jesus, and his book ended with the words, "There laid they Jesus . . . and rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulcher and departed."(2)" "

He has left nothing for you, George and me! He just shut the door and left.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AbRah2006 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2006 at 7:54am

My response: 

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Comment: But how could Jesus be with God in the beginning as this verse says if Jesus was created by God? And how could Jesus be "a god" and yet be with God during the creation, if God was speaking truthfully in Dt.32:39 when he said, "there are no gods with me"?

Is Jesus God? Jesus is not God because Jesus is a powerless man: John 5:30 I (Jesus) can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Allah is the All-Mighty God (Quran 59:22-24).....

Therefore Jesus is powerless so Jesus is not God for God is the All Mighty and All Powerfull !


 

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Miriam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2006 at 7:54am

You are quite right Abednego - didn't Jefferson create his own bible, having torn out those portions which he didn't agree with?

As far as the Jesus Seminars go, isn't it interesting that this group whose scholarship has been exposed as biased and faulty is used as a weapon against Christianity?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abednego Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2006 at 7:23am

Yes that's true. Here is a link to the book you can down load it.

http://nothingistic.org/library/jefferson/jesus/ 

Bear in mind, Jefferson was a Deist, he was not a Christian. He rejected out of hand revealed religion.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2006 at 5:01am

Hey Abed,

I hope AbRah will try to do it legit!  AbRah is a novice.

Since you mentioned the Jesus Seminars, is this true of Thomas Jefferson?

"There is nothing new about this approach in New Testament scholarship. Thomas Jefferson, a great American patriot and president did the same thing in the late 1700s with almost identical results. He admired Jesus as a moral man, but like the Jesus Fellows, he assumed all supernatural and extraordinary elements in the Gospels were unreliable and could not be true. With scissors and paste, Jefferson cut out of the Gospels any and everything which contravened the laws of nature and his own reason.

When he had finished his project, only 82 columns of the four Gospels out of his King James Bible remained from an original 700. The other nine-tenths lay on the cutting room floor. Jefferson entitled his creation The Life and Morals of Jesus, and his book ended with the words, "There laid they Jesus . . . and rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulcher and departed."(2)"

Good to see you here, Mate.

BMZ

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abednego Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2006 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by AbRah2006 AbRah2006 wrote:

My response: 

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Comment: But how could Jesus be with God in the beginning as this verse says if Jesus was created by God? And how could Jesus be "a god" and yet be with God during the creation, if God was speaking truthfully in Dt.32:39 when he said, "there are no gods with me"?

However, these statements were not made by Jesus Christ, nor were they attributed to him by the author of the Gospel according to John. Consequently, these verses do not constitute evidence for Jesus� divinity, especially considering the doubts held by Christian scholars about the Fourth Gospel. The Bible scholars who authored The Five Gospels said: �The two pictures painted by John and the synoptic gospels (i.e., the Gospels of Matthew, Mark & Luke) cannot both be historically accurate. Note:The Gospel of John differs so radically from the other three Gospels (the Synoptic Gospels) that its authenticity is in doubt...The words attributed to Jesus in the Fourth Gospel are the creation of the evangelist for the most part, and reflect the developed language of John�s Christian community.�(The Five Gospels, p. 10)



The same way one can play Chess with himelf, or be angry with himself.

I'm sure you realize the Five Gospels is a Jesus Seminar publication. The Jesus Seminar is as far from real Christianity as Nation of Islam is from what you practice. Unless you are willing to offer the credibility to NOI and apply it to Islam it is unfair and highly dishonest to compare Traditional Christianity to the Jesus Seminar. I know it is important to you to disprove the Trinity but unless you can do it legit and honestly it doen't mean a thing.
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