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Mahammad in Bible, Mentioned by Name!

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jacques4173 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 October 2006 at 8:41pm
This is incorrect. Mohammed is not mentioned in the BIBLE!
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Angela View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2006 at 8:56am

The russian script is derived from Both Greek and Hebrew.

There were sounds in the Russian language that did not correspond to Greek letters, so Cyril and Methodius borrowed those letters from Hebrew.  I would show you the letters I'm talking about, but unfortunately, they don't translate well across the boards.

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/cyrillic.htm

Here's the letter most often pointed out.

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Zhe (Cyrillic)

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Cyrillic letter Zhe
Image:Cyrillic letter Zhe.png
Cyrillic alphabet
А Б В Г Ґ Ѓ Д
Ђ Е Ё Є Ж З Ѕ
И І Ї Й Ј К Ќ
Л Љ М Н Њ О П
Р С Т Ћ У Ў Ф
Х Ц Ч Џ Ш Щ Ъ
Ы Ь Э Ю Я    
Non-Slavic Letters
Ӑ Ә Ӕ Ҕ Ӗ Ғ Ӏ
Ӂ Җ Ӝ Ҙ Ӟ Ӡ Ӣ
Ӥ Ҡ Қ Ҟ Ҝ Ң Ҥ
Ө Ӧ Ҧ Ҫ Ҷ Ҹ Ӵ
Ҽ Ҿ Ҩ Ҳ Һ Ҭ Ҵ
Ӳ Ӯ Ү Ұ Ӱ    
Archaic letters
Ҁ Ѹ Ѡ Ѿ Ѻ Ѣ ІА
Ѥ Ѧ Ѫ Ѩ Ѭ Ѯ Ѱ
Ѳ Ѵ Ѷ

Zhe (Ж, ж) is the letter of Cyrillic alphabet which represents the voiced postalveolar fricative /ʒ/ (listen), similar to the s in the English word treasure.

Zhe is the seventh letter of the Bulgarian alphabet, the eighth letter in the Belarusian, Macedonian, Russian and Serbian alphabets, and the ninth in the Ukrainian alphabet. It is also found in most non-Slavic languages written in the Cyrillic script, representing either /ʒ/, /ʐ/, or /dʒ/. In the old Cyrillic alphabet, zhe was the seventh letter. Its name was живѣте (zhivěte, 'live' imp.), and it did not have a numerical value.

It is not known what zhe was derived from. No similar letter exists in Greek, Latin or any other alphabet of the time, though there is some graphic similarity with its Glagolitic counterpart zhivete (Image: ) which represents the same sound. However, the origin of zhivete, like that of most Glagolitic letters, is unclear. One possibility is that it was formed from two connecting letters shin ש, the bottom one inverted. Several Cyrillic letters derive directly from Hebrew letters and ш, which represents the unvoiced counterpart of zhe, is one of these.

Zhe is most often transliterated as zh, more rarely as zx, except in Serbian and Macedonian where it is most often transliterated as , or, lacking diacritics, simply as z.

The closest Polish counterpart is ż.

Zhe is one of the first letters learned by children who learn to write in Slavic languages, because it looks quite like a young frog floating in a pond, and in these languages the word meaning "frog" or "toad" is written "жаба".

Zhe can also be used in Leet speak in place of the letter x. The rap group Kris Kross has a logo of two k's placed back-to-back similar to zhe.

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Cyril View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyril Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2006 at 3:30am
Angela

I am happy to hear about my homonym Cyril.

There is definitely a difference between "ch" and "H" as the two sounds correspond to two different letters in the Hebrew alphabet.
But as I told you they are pronounced the same nowadays.

The Russian script, known as Cyrillic, is mostly derived from the Greek alphabet not from Hebrew.
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Angela View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2006 at 3:44pm

okay,

I'm not literate in the Hebrew Script, but many of its letters were borrowed when Cyril and Methodius created the Russian script.  I know there is a definite different in the Ch and the H. 

But all this aside, the Chapter being quoted here is from the Song of Solomon, the least likely place you will find references to Muhammed in the Bible (if they are to be found.)

Originally posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_Solomon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_Solomon wrote:

The Song of Solomon or Song of Songs (Hebrew title ��� ������, Shir ha-Shirim) is a book of the Hebrew BibleTanakh or Old Testament�one of the five megillot. It is also sometimes called by its title in the Vulgate, Canticum Canticorum, the "Canticle of Canticles." The title is later than the text [1]. The book consists of a cycle of poems about erotic love, largely in the form of a dialogue between a bridegroom and a bride. The Song of Solomon is not quoted by New Testament writers.

The text, read without allegory as a celebration of sexual love, appears to alternate between addressing a male object of affection and a female one. Black Madonnas illustrate a line in the Song of Songs 1:5: "I am black, but beautiful, O daughters of Jerusalem ..." This is inscribed in Latin on some: Nigra sum sed formosa. It is clear that the inscription was there from the beginning. Some scholars suggest that the poems may be a series of antiphonal remarks and responses between a male and female pair, possibly created by one author rather than reflecting a genuine series of exchanged poems. Other scholars suggest that it is a collection of originally more independent poetry.

The name of the book comes from the first verse, "The Song of songs, which is of (or for) Solomon." Some believe the title "song of songs" attests to the greatness of the book. Rabbi Akiba declared, "Heaven forbid that any man in Israel ever disputed that the Song of Songs is holy. For the whole world is not worth the day on which the Song of Songs was given to Israel, for all the Writings are holy and the Song of Songs is holy of holies. (Mishnah Yadayim 3:5). Similarly, Martin Luther called it "das Hohelied," meaning, "the high song." [2]

Some people translate the second clause of the title as "which is of Solomon," meaning that the book is authored by Solomon. According to Jewish tradition, Solomon wrote three Biblical books, corresponding to three states in a man's life: Song of Songs, which expresses the lustful vigor of youth; Proverbs, which expresses the wisdom of maturity; and Ecclesiastes, which expresses the cynicism of old age. Others translate the second clause as "which is for Solomon," meaning that the book is dedicated to Solomon. Some read the book as contrasting the nobility of monogamous love with the debased nature of promiscuous love, and suggest that the book is actually a veiled criticism of Solomon, who is said to have had seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines.

Although the book never mentions God by name, an allegorical interpretation justified its inclusion in the Biblical canon. According to Jewish tradition in the Midrash and the Targum, it is an allegory of God's love for the Children of Israel. In Christian tradition that began with Origen, it is allegory for the relationship of Christ and the Church or Christ and the individual believer (see the Sermons on the Song of Songs by Bernard of Clairvaux). This type of allegorical interpretation was applied later to even passing details in parables of Jesus. It is also heavily used in Sufi poetry.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the largest denomination in Joseph Smith restorationism, does not recognize the Song of Solomon as authoritative [3], although it is included in the Church's canon and printed in Church-published copies of the Bible.

Pope Benedict XVI's encyclical Deus Caritas Est (God is Love) of 2006 refers to the Song of Songs in both its literal and allegorical meaning, stating that erotic love (eros) and self-donating love (agape) is shown there as the two halves of true love, which is both giving and receiving.

(Compare Ps. 45; Isa. 54:4-6; 62:4, 5; Jer. 2:2; 3:1, 20; Ezek. 16; Hos. 2:16, 19, 20. Compare also Matt. 9:15; John 3:29; Eph. 5:23, 27, 29; Rev. 19:7-9; 21:2, 9; 22:17.)

If Muhammed were to be mentioned in the Bible, it would be in Prophecy, not in divine allegory.  He would be in Zacharias, Elijah or any number of other Prophet's writings.  Not in erotic love poems.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyril Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2006 at 3:21pm
Angela

Modern Hebrew, under the influence of European immigrants, has simplified its pronunciation.
 
The ayin is no longer pronounced, the kaf and qof are pronounced as kaf, and the emphatic "h" (which I transliterate for simplicity's sake as H) Het is pronounced as khaf (or chaf as it is sometimes transliterated under German influence).
 
That is why Israelis say khamas (= chamas) or khanukka (= chanukka) instead of Hamas or Hanukka. Only Jews from Arabic countries and Arabs make the distinction between Het and khaf.

In the Hebrew Bible maHamaddim is written with Het and not with khaf, but in Modern Hebrew it will be pronounced as if written with a khaf. And of course people who follow the Germanic way of transliterating will write the "kh" sound as "ch".

You are right the "a" after Het is very short and one could transliterate as maHmaddim.


Edited by Cyril
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Angela View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2006 at 10:44am
The problem is from what I'm seeing the Hebrew word you are saying is Mahammaddim is actually machmaddim that C makes a big difference.  This is coming from my linguistical side.  I don't know Hebrew, but I know the ch and the h are two different letters. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DigitalStorm82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2006 at 11:25pm
I respect all religions... I won't make up lies...

My objective is to learn and teach others...  not to pull tricks over peoples eyes..

My Imaam once told me about Muhammad being mentioned in the bible... and now I came across it so I thought I'd share.

But, from what it was or what it is... or the meaning of the hebrew text, I'll leave to scholars who actually understand it.


Ma'Salama,
Hamid
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Cyril View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cyril Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2006 at 9:45am
DigitalStorm

At least you have been honest not to modify mahamaddim as mahammadim, as I have seen it on other forums to enhance the supposed similarity of Muhammad and mahammadim.
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