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think.box
Starter Joined: 29 September 2006 Location: Isle Of Man Status: Offline Points: 6 |
Topic: read this now Posted: 04 January 2007 at 12:46pm |
First and foremost, I am not a muslim hater. I do not support Bush or many of the actions that the American government conduct. The democracy in America is that of the people electing who they deem to be the best governing body (republican, democrat, etc.) and the best elect senator for presidential candidate. However, each candidate for president has their own personal agenda. If you're trying to fortify your position as president, what better way then to appease the people by saying what they want to hear. Many times over, what is stated in the agenda's listed by each party never gets accomplished. New laws go into circulation, tax-cuts and tax-hikes, and a never-ending lineup of personal agenda based items surface during a president's stay in office. Yes, some of what they claim they're going to do does happen in the 4 to possibly 8 years that a president has in office. But most, if not all, of the initial items listed on a president's agenda does not get accomplished in their term. The same can be said about each party of legislation. Today's politics have become so corrupt. It is entirely about the "big game". Case in point, these political parties do not care about the concerns of America or its people, but in winning their party into the House and into office. We, the people, have the ability to cast a vote for who we feel is the best presidential candidate. What is sad is that this is a very limited say in American governance. If it were up to the people, the Iraq war would still be a fragment of imagination. Although, Saddam was a mass murderer, killing more than 700,000 Iraqi-kurdish civilians and militia by means of chemical weapons...his ousting, if up to the people, would not have been. I strongly feel, as do many including Noam Chomsky, J. Michael Sproule, Henry Vizi, Barrington Moore, Joe Conason, Amitai. Etzioni, Michael Woodiwiss, Richard Miniter, Prof. Mark Crispin Miller, and the Axis of Justice group, to name a few; that the American government has become very big, too big. Having this big government limits the rights and initially the power of have-nots. Do you think the people of America wanted its government to give aid (mainly weapons) to Indonesia for its invasion and annexation of East Timor, which reached near-genocidal proportions? Or the shipment of arms to Iran through Israel to the Khomeini regime in the 80s, which later surfaced the Contra war cover-up? And what about the Cold War, a National Security analyst, George Kennan, said, "it is not Russian military power which is threatening us, it is Russian political power"; or with President Eisenhower's consistent view that the Russians intended no military conquest of Western Europe and that the major role of NATO was to "convey a feeling of confidence to exposed populations, a confidence which will make them sturdier, politically, in their opposition to Communist inroads." Do you think, the people would act this way towards incidents that will clearly affect their lives in the long run. The American government cares only about two things: money and power. My case here applies to believing that because an evil dictator takes hold of a religion then that immediately makes that religion evil. According to you Hanan and ak_m_f, because Nazi-Germany chose their countries rooted religion as theirs automatically assumes that Christianity, in it's entirity and wholeness (according to the Bible), accepts killing millions of Jews? Of course NOT. Many followers of religions claim to be followers when in fact they're not. It's a misconception, a sense of acceptance that all people have and need. Please, explain to me how the Grand Mufti can be a follower of the Quran, yet believe he can corroborate with Hitler and assist him in killing millions of Jews. According to you, this then must make Islam evil, just as Christianity became evil because the Nazi's claimed to be "followers" of Christianity. The same can be said about past and current American presidents. The mass population of American people are Christians. Thus, if you want to have power over the people, what better way then to appeal to them by claiming to be apart of their sect? I do not consider Bush, Kennedy, or any other in office to be a true patriot of Christianity. If they were religious, it became too distorted and manipulated by power and greed. You cannot attack Christianity only because a select few contradict the peacefulness of it true doctrine. Just like I cannot claim Islam to be evil because of Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, Yasser Arafat, Al-Husseini, or any other person that abuses and distorts the true doctrine of the Quran. True Christians do not want to go to war. They do not want to kill those who do not follow. God is the ultimate judge of non-follower's demise. It is complete hypocrisy and ignorance to think that Christianity, a monotheistic and accepted religious people by the Quran, supports the acts of Hitler. Do you consider the aforementioned arab-men to be true followers of Islam? Every Christian know's to be true that the Nazi regime does not exemplify Christianity. Would Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, portray Islam by using nuclear weapons against another man? I'll assume that the Islamic teachers, and I understand there is not a hierarchy in Islam, but who are commonly referred to as "priests", would not defy Ahmadinejad, but would bless him and his political decisions, whether good or detrimental, on the sole basis of patriotism and fear. This was demonstrated by the priests of Nazi-Germany. They feared Hitler, as did all, and wanted nothing more than to keep a bullet away from their head. There is no circumstantial evidence to prove otherwise and to further a case in accepting that Christianity can now be defined because of Hitler. Also to be noted, that because the American government, who under the constitution is to keep religion out of it's ultimate decision process, dropped an atom bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki also does not conclude that Christians played a role in this act of disgrace; whether or not a few men in conjunction with the decision to drop the nuclear bombs were Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Sihk, etc. This does not exemplify nor define the religion they may be associated with. Here, immerse yourself in the knowledge of Al-Husseini, whom you seem to have been censored to. I already know of the corruption of the American government. Please, discontinue trying to use that to justify the means of a disillusioned concept of Christianity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html http://www.pmw.org.il/bulletins-050802.html Edited by think.box |
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Hanan
Senior Member Joined: 27 July 2006 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1035 |
Posted: 04 January 2007 at 10:47am |
ThinkBox, As a non-PhD historian I would like to provide you with additional information, a lesson about platitudes, and free advice regarding your health. I know this is an old topic. But I just needed to let ak_m_f know that Hitler was excellent friends with muslims. Correction: Mohammad Amin al-Husayni THOUGHT that Hitler was his friend, when in fact, Hitler was friend to no one. I don't seem to remember any priests holding guns to the heads of the British or Jewish men, woman, and children. What do you mean by �I don't seem to remember ��? Were you/are you a member of the Wehrmacht, the Waffen SS, the German clergy or, God forbid, a persecuted German Jew? You are correct, there are no photos of priests threatening Jews, but there are many photos that show priests blessing (making the sign of the cross) the guns that were used to kill Jewish men, women, and children.What I do know for fact is that thousands of jewish children, boys and girls, were all slain in cold-blood because al-Husayni convinced Hitler to hault the departation of the Jews to Turkey, Hungary, and the surrounding countries. You absolutely MUST provide us with more than just pictures and claims of knowing the facts. Please post the website/s. To say that Nazi-Germany was Christian is blasphemy. No it is not. Then and now, Germans were/are Christians (catholic and protestant). That is not to say that most Nazis were practicing their religion. In 1935, the German Christian Movement (Glaubensbewegung "Deutsche Christen") believed that "Baptism may be quite useful, but it cannot straighten a nose." These German Christians believed that National Socialism and Christianity were mutually reinforcing. Racist anti-Semitism formed the core of their program. Accordingly, they aimed to purge Christianity of everything they deemed Jewish and to reconstitute the church as an association of blood and race. The Nazis and Adolf Hitler are commonly thought of as representing the antithesis of Christianity and Christian values. If that's true, why did tens of millions of German Christians adore Hitler, join the Nazis, and participate in the Holocaust (among other atrocities)? Hitler and the Nazis promoted a Christian nationalism, anti-communism, anti-Semitism, and return to traditional values which most Christians appreciated. The Nazi party platform specifically endorsed 'positive' Christianity. Excuse me while I puke in disgust over ak_m_f's pointing of the finger at Christians. Make sure you don�t soil your shoes in the process. And now on to somthing a little more interesting: I�m sure you�re aware of the facts that both the Kennedy (considered the �ber-Catholicis of our nation) and the Bush (rumored to be devout Christians) families had close ties with the Nazis. In 1937, Joseph Kennedy, Sr. was appointed Ambassador to Great Britain. He argued against American and British involvement in the war. Even as the Nazis rolled into France, Joe expressed his support for Hitler and maintained a position of appeasement toward Germany. While Kennedy staunchly supported appeasing Hitler, he was very critical of Winston Churchill's calls for a stronger policy against the Nazi threat. He was an anti Semite and once said to his sons: �Never do business with Jews.� How ironic is that since he, a Catholic, had been the victim of anti-religious sentiment. George Bush's grandfather, US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany. His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz. A former US Nazi war crimes prosecutor even argued that the late senator's action should have been grounds for prosecution for giving aid and comfort to the enemy. No one is perfect, no Christian or Muslim. No one is perfect � no one knows everything � blablabla. Why do people always say crap like that? As if we don�t know and need to be told by people who think of themselves as more knowledgeable and more perfect than the rest of us imbeciles. But it doesn't take a historian with a phd or a rocket scientist to clearly see who was the most deviant. What? And I thought only historians with PhD�s (why is it important to emphasize the PhD?) and rocket scientists (I love these beaten-to-death-a-million-times-over American phrases) would be able to make that distinction. Don�t let your dislike for Muslims and for Anything-Not-Pure-White-Christian-American grab hold of your sanity. Peace, Hanan |
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Daniel Dworsky
Senior Member Joined: 17 March 2005 Location: Israel Status: Offline Points: 777 |
Posted: 04 January 2007 at 3:07am |
This is what made the Jewish state and turn Zionism into something other
than a dream. These bigots forced us to focus all our energy and being into surviving another day at all costs. Hitler passed a death sentence on all Jews under his jurisdiction. In his mind that meant the earth. If you were found to have a jewish grandfather or grandmother 4 generations back you were torn from your home and you and your family were executed by the state. That made a big impression on us as a people. It explains a lot and justifies nothing. There's a country western song my brother had in his repertoire "They don't make jews like Jesus any more" Written by a an extremely weird Texan named Kinky Friedman. His band is called "The Jew boys" No one likes getting kicked around. Our various paths have to change. We all seem to muddle on forward preparing for the inevitable collision. It's so st**id. We end up hurting innocent people just like us - the way we were, helpless and arrogant. All this is changing because it must. |
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think.box
Starter Joined: 29 September 2006 Location: Isle Of Man Status: Offline Points: 6 |
Posted: 03 January 2007 at 9:32pm |
I know this is an old topic. But I just needed to let ak_m_f know that Hitler was excellent friends with muslims. In fact, there were muslims fighting for the Nazi's in the Waffen-SS. Did you just happen to "forget" about Mohammad Amin al-Husayni and his close personal ties to Hitler? I don't seem to remember any priests holding guns to the heads of the British or Jewish men, woman, and children. What I do know for fact is that thousands of jewish children, boys and girls, were all slain in cold-blood because al-Husayni convinced Hitler to hault the departation of the Jews to Turkey, Hungary, and the surrounding countries. Here are a few pictures of al-Husseini and Hitler together, and of him and Waffen-SS.
Mohammad Amin al-Husseini worked for the Nazi Germany as a propagandist for the Arabs and a recruiter of Muslim volunteers for the German armed forces. Beginning in 1943, al-Husayni was involved in the organization and recruitment of Bosnian Muslims into several divisions of the Waffen SS and other units. The largest was the 13th "Handschar" division of 21,065 men, which conducted operations against Communist partisans in the Balkans from February 1944. Al-Husayni insisted that "The most important task of this division must be to protect the homeland and families (of the Bosnian volunteers); the division must not be permitted to leave Bosnia.", but this request was ignored by the Germans (German archives cited in Lepre, p34). On March 1, 1944, while speaking on Radio Berlin, al-Husayni said:
Adolf Eichmann's deputy Dieter Wisliceny testified during his war crimes trial in 1946 that ... "The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan... He was one of Eichmann�s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chambers of Auschwitz." Among the sabotage al-Husayni organized was an attempted chemical warfare assault on the second largest and predominantly Jewish city in Palestine, Tel Aviv. Five parachutists were sent with a toxin to dump into the water system. The police caught the infiltrators in a cave near Jericho, and according to Jericho district police commander Fayiz Bey Idrissi, "The laboratory report stated that each container held enough poison to kill 25,000 people, and there were at least ten containers." Recent Nazi documents uncovered in the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Military Archive Service in Freiburg by two researchers, Klaus Michael Mallmann from Stuttgart University and Martin C�ppers from the University of Ludwigsburg, indicated that in the event of the British being defeated in Egypt by Field Marshal Erwin Rommel's Afrika Korps the Nazis had planned to deploy a special unit called Einsatzkommando �gypten to exterminate Palestinian Jews and that they wanted Arab support to prevent the emergence of a Jewish state. In their book the researchers concluded that, "the most important collaborator with the Nazis and an absolute Arab anti-Semite was Haj Amin al-Husseini, the mufti of Jerusalem". According to the German researchers Husayni was a prime example of how Arabs and Nazis became friends out of a hatred of Jews. Al-Husseini had met several times with Adolf Eichmann, Adolf Hitler's chief architect of the Holocaust.
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So aiding the Nazi's in actual physical warfare, unlike the priests shown in ak_m_f's images, that makes it perfectly right to completely disregard this information? Do you really think it completely honors allah to kill thousands of innocent lives...especially alongside Hitler? You can't accept the truth. You can't say the Nazi's were Christian solely on the premesis that before the time of Hitler, Germany was Catholic (a form of Christianity, if you didn't already know this). To say that Nazi-Germany was Christian is blasphemy. Excuse me while I puke in disgust over ak_m_f's pointing of the finger at Christians. No one is perfect, no Christian or Muslim. But it doesn't take a historian with a phd or a rocket scientist to clearly see who was the most deviant. Edited by think.box |
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Desting2
Groupie Joined: 14 October 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 42 |
Posted: 27 October 2006 at 4:16pm |
this is funny...I'm glad I don't live U.K..stop acting you own U.K....go learn your history..why don't you apoligize your country's past history.colonizing Asia to Africa..eradicating other cultures..killing innocent people..why don't you apologize what your people did to Native North Amerciams to Australia..I'm so..sure..you know where I'm going... anyways..Muslims aren't responsible..your...idiotic mind is responsible..lol...viladi ----, si..si..tuti..bianco..are---..I don't even know if you are nero..lol |
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lady
Senior Member Joined: 20 September 2006 Status: Offline Points: 314 |
Posted: 05 October 2006 at 2:56am |
Wait a minute, wait a minute. Did you guys not read what Deea wrote? I have not idea how to answer that question. What is black magic and jinnat?
Edited by lady |
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Hanan
Senior Member Joined: 27 July 2006 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 1035 |
Posted: 04 October 2006 at 8:22pm |
righteous_4ever, you have nothing better to do than to pick an argument by responding to THIS? Frustrating day at work, or what?
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righteous_4ever
Groupie Joined: 22 August 2006 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 90 |
Posted: 04 October 2006 at 2:44pm |
Are you trying to say that what the Quran says its not true??? I have loads of reason to support the Quran. What makes you think the Quran is corrupt?? Islam is a perfect religion maybe Christianity isnt.
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Hadia
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