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Literal vs Intention

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Angela View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 October 2006 at 7:42am

That's a tricky one.  In my faith, your fast would not be valid.  The whole point of a fast is to remember through sacrifice.  If you forgot your fasting, then you failed to remember.  In our belief, its better to desire to fast and fail because of illness or weakness.  I cannot fast due to my health issues, however, I observe the prayerfulness of the fast each month with my husband and pay my fast offerings as if I missed the meals.

Since intention is key (in my belief) then forgetfulness in a way is part of that intention.  Its better to remember and desire to do the good act, then to forget and ignore it.

For example, (my opinion) it would be better for a Muslim to remember Asr prayer and desire to go to it. But, if he were prevented to go on time by a meeting, emergency or doctor's visit, he still at least remembered and can make it up later.  However, if you just simply forget about your prayers, something you should be doing daily.  Then what does that say about your priorities and intentions.

Its a tough call, as with anything, there are definitely times where forgetting is forgivable.  If you're in an accident and you're dealing with the tow truck, the police office, EMS, and the insurance company, stuff gets forgotten.  However, I really would say in that case circumstances of the forgetfulness would have to be looked at carefully.

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air_one View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote air_one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2006 at 6:16pm
Heres something regarding this subject: -

If you dont intend to break your fast but yet you still have a meal (you forget that you're fasting) your fast is still valid no matter how much you ate.

But if you just intend on breaking your fast early, then according to most your fast is no longer valid.


true no?
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lady View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lady Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2006 at 5:42pm

 

Hayfa wrote

 "The purpose i think it to make ourslves more consious of our every action or deed.  The person who seeks good all the time may be further along then the person who does the "basics" but has not brought it to a deeper level. Some people, honestly do not operate on a deeper level. That just may be their make-up. who knows.Of course Allah.  Some people lack the "empathy" gene. 

I really have nothing else to say that will top this one.  Bravo Bravo Bravo.  You have summarized it all.

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aramuh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aramuh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2006 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by air_one air_one wrote:

Assalamualaikum


Sahih Bukhari

Volume 1, Book 1, Number 1:

Narrated 'Umar bin Al-Khattab:

I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The reward of deeds depends upon the intentions and every person will get the reward according to what he has intended. So whoever emigrated for worldly benefits or for a woman to marry, his emigration was for what he emigrated for."


Clearly our intention is the core of every deed that we do. Doing our daily salat (prayers), fasting in the month of ramadhan, paying our zakat etc....All these without the proper intention will count for nothing.

I agree with this

To get direct to the point....yes i think intention is more important than interpretation.

yet I think that both are equally important.

Btw i would refrain from using the submission.org website since i see it as misleading. If i am not mistaken they do not accept the hadiths and sunnah of our prophet Muhammad (SAW). Can anyone else clarify this for me?

My understanding of the submission.org website is that you are correct about not accepting hadiths and sunnah and in relying on
God's Word about which Muhammad (May Peace be upon him) has given us due warning and clarification.

Of all those who show mercy our Lord is the most merciful. 

I will listen to the hadiths and sunnah as help but not as law.  The Quran offers clear and complete guidance as to God's Law.

All Praise is to God.

Peace.

Allah knows best.

and is Most Gracious.



 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote air_one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2006 at 5:09pm

Assalamualaikum


Sahih Bukhari

Volume 1, Book 1, Number 1:

Narrated 'Umar bin Al-Khattab:

I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The reward of deeds depends upon the intentions and every person will get the reward according to what he has intended. So whoever emigrated for worldly benefits or for a woman to marry, his emigration was for what he emigrated for."


Clearly our intention is the core of every deed that we do. Doing our daily salat (prayers), fasting in the month of ramadhan, paying our zakat etc....All these without the proper intention will count for nothing.

To get direct to the point....yes i think intention is more important than interpretation.

Btw i would refrain from using the submission.org website since i see it as misleading. If i am not mistaken they do not accept the hadiths and sunnah of our prophet Muhammad (SAW). Can anyone else clarify this for me?

Allah knows best.






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aramuh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aramuh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2006 at 4:26pm

My understanding is that Zakat was established with Abraham as 2.5% of income and is to be paid whenever that income has been received (or at the time of harvest).  Any further charity is recommended and is a portion of what can be spared and as appropriate to circumstances.  Please refer to your Quran if you have doubts.  The website www.submission.org explains this well.

God is the most gracious and does not burden us.

La elaha ellah allah.

Praise God.

Peace.

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Hayfa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2006 at 10:13am

It is a good question... the challenge is that intention is filled with layers.

It was explained to much like their are scales on either side of us.. good deeds and bad deeds.  I imagine that there are lots of things being put on these scales. And the depth at which you seek to do good it part of that. The purpose i think it to make ourslves more consious of our every action or deed.  The person who seeks good all the time may be further along then the person who does the "basics" but has not brought it to a deeper level.

Some people, honestly do not operate on a deeper level. That just may be their make-up. who knows.Of course Allah.  Some people lack the "empathy" gene.  How does that factor in? I have no idea. lol

 

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Angela View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2006 at 8:59am

I misunderstood the way Zakah is calculated.  Sister Herjihad explained it to me a few days ago.  In the LDS Church, we give 10% of our increase or Income to tithing.  We also give charity and fast offerings.

Tithing is 10% of any money or commodity we earn.  Thus, I was mistaken in thinking Zakah was 2.5% of what you earn and not just what you have at the end of the year.

Fast offerings that we give are closer maybe.  We fast one day a month where we are required to miss at least two meals.  We are to take the money we would have spent on the food and give it to charity.  This money is where the LDS Church gets the money for our programs to feed and cloth the poor regardless of religious affiliation.

I had this same conversation with my in laws a few weeks ago.  We discussed the letter versus the law.  For us, they are both equally important.  Obedience is key, but the purpose of the obedience is also important.

God wants us to obey him.  If we do so to please him and with sincere intent to do good and with a whole-hearted desire, then the rewards are great.  If we do so only for selfish reasons, then the rewards won't be as great.

There was a talk given by a general authority in our Church over the weekend about being 80/20 members of the church.  That if you are good 80%, its not okay to be bad 20% of the time.  Its 100% or nothing.  That goes with intention. 

If you are only following the laws so that you look pious versus someone who is pious, then the rewards will be different.  We all know that person (all faiths have them) that seem to shout, "Look at me, Look how faithful I am."  They do it for the attention.  We all also know that man or woman who's quiet in church, mosque or synagogue.  The one who quietly meditates on the sermon and gives a smile and handshake to his fellows.  The man or woman who when they pass on, people realize the loss at the little things that person did that no one realized. 

My grandmother is going to be one of these people. She tries to do one good deed a day that no one knows about.  She's taught each of us grandchildren to do the same.  I'm ashamed to say, I fail more than I succeed. 

One of my favorite passages comes from Mark Chapter 12

  38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
  39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
  40 Which devour widows� houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
  41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
  42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
  43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
  44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
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