Australian PM condemns sheik’s sermon

candid wrote: Okay, I admit I used harsh language. That is because I don't like Angel's attitude here. This is an Islamic forum. I don't like non-muslims to question Islam or Muslims here. I don't think that is unfair because no one is preventing non-muslims from doing that in their own forum or some other forum of their choice. Muslims come here to discuss their religious issues. Muslims don't come here to be insulted or provoked. Non-Muslims are welcome here if they come here to learn about Islam or meaningfully discuss about Islamic issues as Duende and Angela do. That does not mean that they have to agree to everything what Muslims say; but, atleast they can be silent if they can't help provoking or insulting us. If they disagree with us they should not insult us.

 

Do we not live in a free world to preech what we believe in?? I thought that is what this forum is about?

As mentioned above to discuss issues & talking points & not to express threatening words or statements to another!

Sign*Reader wrote: candid wrote: Sign*Reader wrote: candid wrote: Angel wrote: candid wrote: Oh, Candid, get lost.  Nobody here agrees with what you said.  And I don't care, what you think. If you agree with me good for you. Otherwise, its your problem. BTW, if no one disagrees with what the other says, then perhaps we don't need a discussion forum. wow  your attitude is really something   You should care Candid but i guess you don't, I guess you don't care what kind of projection you put onto islam and muslims, you want people to know what islam is, well i hope they do not learn from you.  Really?? Well, there are certain values which we cannot compromise upon irrespective of what you think of us. I think Muslim should stop caring about what others say and do what they think is right. If we need to make changes we should do it independently of what others tell us to do. No amount of a  appeasement or compromises can satisfy the non-muslims until we foresake our religion. What certain values ? be more specific--we(who R we) you are talking about? If you are speaking for a group you need to say which one, so your authority is weighted & recognized accordingly. If you are speaking for yourself, and itching for big time argument with sister herjihad on this issue, think again you are in for a surprise. There will be more votes with her than with you. So better behave I meant 'we' as Muslims. My post was to Angel who is a non-muslim. Irrespective of what we believe our values are, we should not decide on our values just to please the non-muslims. There can be differences amongst Muslims I accept (and I am not always right, I admit) but the differences had to be resolved irrespective of what the non-muslims tell us to do. The rest of your post is irrelevant (its centred around me, really can't understand what happened to forum rule of 'no personal attacks').  This "we" represent Muslims of which hamlet and what country? Who died and left you in charge to speak for all Muslims. You can't even show your location and you like to represent Muslims opinion!  The attitude is appalling and sanctimonious which is in direct contradiction to Allah directed method of calling people to goodness:  Q16:125>>Call unto the way of Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way.

I am a Muslim, I have stake here, I have the right to propose what I think is right for the Muslims as a whole. Nothing in what I wrote, suggested that I want to enforce my views over the all of the Muslims. It was a suggestion. Other Muslims can follow it or not.  BTW, I am from India. You want my address too? If its really that important for you.

candid wrote: Irrespective of what we believe our values are, we should not decide on our values just to please the non-muslims. This is a moronic argument, ever wonder why George's call out of Islamofascism. It really doesn't matter what you say on the net debate cos I always considered it running of a Special Olympics.

That betrays your obsequity to your non-muslim masters. Blame the victim for the oppression.

ISLAMIC VALUES ARE TIME CONSTANT LAID DOWN IN PERSPICUOUS QURAN, NEITHER YOU NOR ANYBODY AROUND YOU WHEREVER WILL GET TO  DECIDE SOMETHING ANEW IN DARK AND IN SECRET. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

That's what everyone says. But clearly there are major differences amongst Muslims and those have to be resolved. It should not be done just to conform to what the non-muslims tell us to do.

You just are NOT allowed to criticize, malign your neighbors in Islam. If you can not dawah the community for better by example you ought to  move out of there otherwise speak well or should keep quite. candid wrote: There can be differences amongst Muslims I accept (and I am not always right, I admit) but the differences had to be resolved irrespective of what the non-muslims tell us to do.

Before you lecture me about dawah, it will be better you understand that dawah does not mean entertaining or charming the non-muslims through flattery for personal benefits.

There is no difference to resolve, it is a reactionary approach to spin by the thin skinned insecure so called Muslims. It is that simple. The shiekh got carried away with his not knowing his place in the scheme of things. I don't know if you are in Australia but it begs a question--how 1.5% Muslim population of Australia can make an impact on the rest by being judgmental while in process losing the womens support?. Now sheikh is out his job for not following Quranic guidelines and embarrassing the fellow Muslims.

I am not in Australia. The Sheikh's mistake was in not anticipating the reaction to what he said. But what he said was not wrong. I was wrong in saying 'I bet they liked it', and that was because I don't like non-muslims to whine in this forum, I wanted to tell them that I ignore them. However, other Muslims also took offence to that.

It is proverbial "Living in Rome and fighting with Pope" and then complain about the consequences.

When in pigsty, you want to live as the pigs do? Go ahead, its your choice.

candid wrote: The rest of your post is irrelevant It was in response to your judgmental  opinions so think before you post.

To rephrase, your obsession with me is irrelevant to this discussion. You agree with me or not, stick to the issue. If you want to discuss about me start a new thread.

Edited by candid

candid wrote: Okay, I admit I used harsh language. That is because I don't like Angel's attitude here.

Really that is no excuse.

You don't like my attitude here, well I did not like yours and I believe they were more than harsh. I responded to you (as with herjihad) because your remarks about women, not just to non muslims BUT also to muslim women were ignorant and unacceptable/insulting. The issue as i have stated before there are many muslims who disagree with you, And with topic a lot of muslims here in Australia have done the most outcry and asked for this cleric to resign. The muslims in the state of Victoria actually don't listen to the cleric. The sheikh of England who is here visiting believes he needs to step down.

I tried to present to you and others what is happening in Australia about and within the muslim ummah and what muslims are saying.

I know the media can get carried away and not be fair at times but here the media has shown both sides from the muslim community both with those who are with the shiekh and those who disagree, both sides have come on camera on the news - don't you think that is good?

 

This is an Islamic forum. I don't like non-muslims to question Islam or Muslims here. I don't think that is unfair because no one is preventing non-muslims from doing that in their own forum or some other forum of their choice.

Now about all this just above, I have presented my views on this in comments and complaints section but will say again for you Candid. Tell me, how are non muslims suppose to learn about islam and muslims? You never learn just by listening/reading, you need to get into discussions to furthur your learning and most of all understanding and guess a lot of times its also from ordinary and everyday interacting with others. If you don't question, then you might just get wrong learning and understanding. My biggest learning has been from talking/discussing and questioning! I believe it is incorrect not to discuss! I will always question things. AND this forum is for ALL to come here. About the insults, muslims can be insulting to at times, at times i see it as worst than from the non muslims.

candid wrote: Sign*Reader wrote: candid wrote: Angel wrote: candid wrote: Oh, Candid, get lost.  Nobody here agrees with what you said.  And I don't care, what you think. If you agree with me good for you. Otherwise, its your problem. BTW, if no one disagrees with what the other says, then perhaps we don't need a discussion forum. wow  your attitude is really something   You should care Candid but i guess you don't, I guess you don't care what kind of projection you put onto islam and muslims, you want people to know what islam is, well i hope they do not learn from you.  Really?? Well, there are certain values which we cannot compromise upon irrespective of what you think of us. I think Muslim should stop caring about what others say and do what they think is right. If we need to make changes we should do it independently of what others tell us to do. No amount of a  appeasement or compromises can satisfy the non-muslims until we foresake our religion. What certain values ? be more specific--we(who R we) you are talking about? If you are speaking for a group you need to say which one, so your authority is weighted & recognized accordingly. If you are speaking for yourself, and itching for big time argument with sister herjihad on this issue, think again you are in for a surprise. There will be more votes with her than with you. So better behave I meant 'we' as Muslims. My post was to Angel who is a non-muslim. Irrespective of what we believe our values are, we should not decide on our values just to please the non-muslims. There can be differences amongst Muslims I accept (and I am not always right, I admit) but the differences had to be resolved irrespective of what the non-muslims tell us to do. The rest of your post is irrelevant (its centred around me, really can't understand what happened to forum rule of 'no personal attacks').

 This "we" represent Muslims of which hamlet and what country? Who died and left you in charge to speak for all Muslims. You can't even show your location and you like to represent Muslims opinion!  The attitude is appalling and sanctimonious which is in direct contradiction to Allah directed method of calling people to goodness:
 Q16:125>>Call unto the way of Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way.

candid wrote: Irrespective of what we believe our values are, we should not decide on our values just to please the non-muslims.

This is a moronic argument, ever wonder why George's call out of Islamofascism. It really doesn't matter what you say on the net debate cos I always considered it running of a Special Olympics. ISLAMIC VALUES ARE TIME CONSTANT LAID DOWN IN PERSPICUOUS QURAN, NEITHER YOU NOR ANYBODY AROUND YOU WHEREVER WILL GET TO  DECIDE SOMETHING ANEW IN DARK AND IN SECRET. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.
Your suggestion of pleasing the non Muslims, is preposterous and lame.
You just are NOT allowed to criticize, malign your neighbors in Islam. If you can not dawah the community for better by example you ought to  move out of there otherwise speak well or should keep quite.

candid wrote: There can be differences amongst Muslims I accept (and I am not always right, I admit) but the differences had to be resolved irrespective of what the non-muslims tell us to do.

There is no difference to resolve, it is a reactionary approach to spin by the thin skinned insecure so called Muslims. It is that simple. The shiekh got carried away with his not knowing his place in the scheme of things.
I don't know if you are in Australia but it begs a question--how 1.5% Muslim population of Australia can make an impact on the rest by being judgmental while in process losing the womens support?. Now sheikh is out his job for not following Quranic guidelines and embarrassing the fellow Muslims.
It is proverbial "Living in Rome and fighting with Pope" and then complain about the consequences.

candid wrote: The rest of your post is irrelevant

It was in response to your judgmental  opinions so think before you post.


Edited by Sign*Reader