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Tasneem View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 August 2005 at 4:40pm

Zenman wrote: Surely in Islam you have teaching that are very profund and require a good deal of study,and some that do not.Therefore a muslim can study with a particular teacher to learn something new,I would think. Zen is not the pinacle however of difficult or esoteric school there are several which have very small membership and require tremendous scholarship as well as meditation.

I'm sorry, since the last few days I have not been able to come onto this forum and I had'nt seen your posts. I'd like to ask what you consider "profound" in Islam, that is difficult to comprehend? Are you talking about life after death and Heaven & hell?

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Angel View Drop Down
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Originally posted by copenhagen copenhagen wrote:

What I think is so odd about zen et al, is that I frequently hear the importance of simplicity, but it's burried in big words.

lol, you have a point there

Quote But you also have something like the "Tao of Pooh" written as a childrens book.

hey, I have that book, a little mini book

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Originally posted by Tasneem Tasneem wrote:

If the Zen branch of Buddhism is for the "intellectual elite" don't you think it discriminates on the basis of ones brainpower or "cleverness"? So people who are not quite as bright should miss out on its teachings? It seems to me quite contrary to the teachings of Islam. Because Islam is easy to understand and mostly logical. Most of the first converts to Islam were the poor and those who were looked down upon. Should'nt a religion accept anyone irrespective of a person's intellect, background, wealth or any criteria?


Peace be upon you all.

From the little bit I know about zen, it could be described as:
"What happens when you really ponder what is transpiring when you are praying"

I don't think Islam is simple at all, just that most folks haven't given it much thought. When you get beyond the quick wit retort, there are some impossible to describe concepts. Only a tiny percentage of Muslims study them. Does that make Islam inaccessible? Nope.

What I think is so odd about zen et al, is that I frequently hear the importance of simplicity, but it's burried in big words. But you also have something like the "Tao of Pooh" written as a childrens book.

Just my take on things.

P.S. If you are about to click the reply button to tell me what happens when you pray, I ask that you think it through a little further first. (or read my sig, and leave it alone )

Edited by copenhagen
Some people before you asked questions, and on that account lost their faith.
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zenman View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tasneem Tasneem wrote:

If the Zen branch of Buddhism is for the "intellectual elite" don't you think it discriminates on the basis of ones brainpower or "cleverness"? So people who are not quite as bright should miss out on its teachings? It seems to me quite contrary to the teachings of Islam. Because Islam is easy to understand and mostly logical. Most of the first converts to Islam were the poor and those who were looked down upon. Should'nt a religion accept anyone irrespective of a person's intellect, background, wealth or any criteria? I have written this just for the sake of discussion. If you have found all the answers to the complexities of life and this universe in Buddhism that is really good. How do you find Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translation? Is it much different from Alfred Gulliame's?

 

Well Zen does not prohibit anyone form coming or going it has respect for other traditions of Buddhism. Our feeling is there are many school that are availble to evreyone according to theri disposition and upbrinigng. There is a good deal of camaradeship with some of those as well.It is not uncommon for a monk or lay person to study in several traditions.its like one big Unversity you can major in english or history etc,but it is still the same university.Surely in Islam you have teaching that are very profund and require a good deal of study,and some that do not.Therefore a muslim can study with a particular teacher to learn something new,I would think. Zen is not the pinacle however of difficult or esoteric school there are several which have very small membership and require tremendous scholarship as well as meditation. i got as copy of Koran Yusuf Ali's translation from a Muslim Widow who my wife befriended she gave us both a copy.Alis' scholarship is far superior to the Englishmans but as I said my old Professor corrections. much of that and his corrections and Alis' text are very concistent.



Edited by zenman
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saalih View Drop Down
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what happen to varshakeen
allah knows best.
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Tasneem View Drop Down
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If the Zen branch of Buddhism is for the "intellectual elite" don't you think it discriminates on the basis of ones brainpower or "cleverness"? So people who are not quite as bright should miss out on its teachings? It seems to me quite contrary to the teachings of Islam. Because Islam is easy to understand and mostly logical. Most of the first converts to Islam were the poor and those who were looked down upon. Should'nt a religion accept anyone irrespective of a person's intellect, background, wealth or any criteria? I have written this just for the sake of discussion. If you have found all the answers to the complexities of life and this universe in Buddhism that is really good. How do you find Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translation? Is it much different from Alfred Gulliame's?
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zenman View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tasneem Tasneem wrote:

Thankyou Zenman for your response. I have not heard of this Alfred Guilliame and who or what religion he belongs to. I am not sure what has attracted you to Islamicity, but if you wish to get a proper understanding of Islam it would be beneficial if you read a good translation of the Qur'an by a well renowned scholar such as Abdullah Yusuf Ali or Pickthall. Many sites have these translations online and I invite you to read from these to get a better perspective on Islam. One of the sites I frequent is: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

You have said that you got a better perspective of God from sufism. Would you like to share your knowledge with us?

 

I do have a copy of  Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation and have been reading for some time. Old Alfred was a turn of centry Orientalist.My Prof literally rewote the translation as we went over it.I asked why do you not translate it yourself He told me I am far to humble to try. 

Well about ten years I used to frequent a park very early in the morning where I would do some Bowing and then meditate for several hours.

On day when I was in meditation I felt someones presence close to me an there was a man on a small rug also meditating or praying. When I finished  I got up and he walked over to me and greeted me.We stared talking and I found out my new freind was from Afghanistan and was a follower fo the Sufi way.Subsequently we have had many discussions and shared many books.We have had long talks about God, the Budddha mind and so on.He had me read Al Hallaj,Al Ghazzali and some other works, and while meditating on them, I came upon a kind of epiphany as it were about  Nature and the Real. It is completely impossoble to communicate verbally,but my friend knew it immediately. I learned only this.

When you arrive at the sea, you
do not talk of the tributary.
(Hakim Sanai,

i no longer have ptoblems with the word God or Allah.



Edited by zenman
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Tasneem View Drop Down
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Thankyou Zenman for your response. I have not heard of this Alfred Guilliame and who or what religion he belongs to. I am not sure what has attracted you to Islamicity, but if you wish to get a proper understanding of Islam it would be beneficial if you read a good translation of the Qur'an by a well renowned scholar such as Abdullah Yusuf Ali or Pickthall. Many sites have these translations online and I invite you to read from these to get a better perspective on Islam. One of the sites I frequent is: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

You have said that you got a better perspective of God from sufism. Would you like to share your knowledge with us?
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