The Public Dhikr (Hadra)

"Firstly Dhikr is not Salat, what is said above in relation to bidah is only aplicable to salat since the actions of salat have been specificaly described and changing them or ading to them is certainly a reprihensable Bidah.

A basic rule of Usul al Fiqh is that "Everything is permisable unless sharia evidence exists otherwise", for Ibadah (salat) it is oposite."

Brother Rami, is it your belief that dhikr is not ibadah?

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assaslamu alaikum

With my all full respects to both of u...i prefer to think on the priorities of islam...Tawhid...in the conditions of my country coming from the secular biases,acting the hadra is so wrong for the person's embraces who are so far away from Islam by the cause of the secular system made biases on their minds,long story,dirty game!...i prefer to talk and live the priorities of islam,i have no time to making hadra while my people is falling to the river going to hell by the cause of not seeing any kind of high issues(Tawhid) passing in the daily life...my country's problems are different...Allah knows the best...best regards to both of u...wa salaam....

To me brother it seems that the issue for you is a matter of personel dislike rather than basing your idea that it is wrong on any evidence.

Many people pray who are far away from Islam does that make prayer wrong...no. what the people are like who do the hadra in you area is not the issue.

Unless you are implying that every person who has performned this dhikr is wrong which is wrong in itself to think that.

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

Brother with all respect you are welcome to follow the rulings of islam-qa.com but it does not represent the rullings of the Madhhabs but those of the salafi Ideology.

Whoever adheres to the practice of reciting du�aa� in unison following the prayers or after reading Qur�aan or after every lesson has innovated something and introduced into the religion something which is not a part of it. It was narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: �Whoever innovates something in this matter of ours (i.e. Islam) that is not part of it will have it rejected.� And he said: �Whoever does something that is not in accordance with this matter of ours (Islam) will have it rejected.�

Firstly Dhikr is not Salat, what is said above in relation to bidah is only aplicable to salat since the actions of salat have been specificaly described and changing them or ading to them is certainly a reprihensable Bidah.

A basic rule of Usul al Fiqh is that "Everything is permisable unless sharia evidence exists otherwise", for Ibadah (salat) it is oposite.

What has been done today by modern shaykhs is to reverse this principle which has been a foundation for rullings by the entire Ummah. Simply becouse Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) did not practice something specificaly does not give a person permission to say this is halal and haram on behalf of the Prophet.

The idea that using that hadith to say Group Dhikr is Biddah is the interpretation of the shaykh. The Hadith of bidah is very general and does not mention anything specific, as soon as a person says it aplies to this or that matter he is interpreting it from himself.

Fataawa Islamiyyah is by Shaykhs Ibn Baz Al-Uthaymein, Al-Jibreen & The Fiqh Council, which are salafi scholars and institution. There rulings are only accepted by those who follow them.

The shaykhs and the institution are not recognised as an authority by any of the Madhhabs and there views and Ijtihad do not represent the views of the majority of this Ummah. The door to Ijtihad has been closed for the past few hundred years these matters have been clearly legislated upon and all the madhhabs aprove of the permisability of Group Dhikr.

as i said earlier br you are welcome to follow whom ever you like, prefering not to be involved in group dhikr is not blamworthy or reprehensible it is only a voluntary act.

Abu Hurairah (RA) narrates from Rasulullah (صلي الله عليه وسلم) that there is a group of angels who patrol the earth and wherever they find any gathering of Zikr they call out to each other and form a circle around this gathering that reaches to the sky. When this gathering disperses, they return to the sky where they are questioned by Allah Ta�ala, although He is All-knowing: Where have you come from? They reply: We come from a gathering of Your servants who are engaged in Tasbeeh, Takbeer and Tahmeed. Allah Ta�ala asks them: Have they seen Me? The angels reply: No. Allah Ta�ala asks: And what if they had seen Me? They reply: Then they would have engaged even more excessively in Your Ibadah and in Tasbeeh (glorifying of) You. Allah Ta�ala says: What are they asking for? They reply: They ask of You Jannah. Allah Ta�ala then asks: Have they seen Jannah? The angels reply: No. Allah Ta�ala asks: And what if they had seen Jannah? They reply: Then they would have been even more desirous, eager and keen for it. Allah Ta�ala says: What are they seeking refuge from? They reply: They ask refuge from the Fire (of Hell). Allah Ta�ala asks: Have they seen the Fire? The angels reply: No. Allah Ta�ala asks: And what if they had seen it? They reply: Then they would have tried harder to escape from it and they would have been more fearful of it. Allah Ta�ala says: I make you witness that I have pardoned them. One angel exclaims: A certain person was not from them. He came (coincidentally) for some work. Allah Ta�ala says: They are such a people that even those who sit with them (for other work) will not be deprived.

� Narrated by Bukhari, Muslim, Baihaqi

Shaikh Zakariyya�s (R) commentary on this Hadith:

This subject has also been narrated in numerous other traditions that the angels look for, listen to and sit with the �gatherings� of Zikr.

Mu�awiyah (RA) narrates that Rasulullah (صلي الله عليه وسلم) once came forth to meet a group of the Sahabah (RA). He said: What has caused you to congregate here? They replied: We have congregated here to remember Allah Ta�ala and to praise Him for guiding us to Islam and blessing us with it. He said: By Allah! Is this the only reason for your gathering? They replied: By Allah! This is the only reason for our gathering. He said: I had not made you swear an oath because I disbelieved you but Jibraeel came to me and informed me that Allah Ta�ala is boasting about you before the angels.

- Narrated by Muslim, Tirmizi, Nasai, Ibn-Abi-Shaibah, Ahmad

Shaikh Zakariyya�s (R) commentary:

Mulla Ali Qari (R) explains that Allah boasts about these people because despite having worldly engagements, natural desires, temptations and the shaitaan trying to mislead them, they do not neglect and turn away from My remembrance; then the Zikr of the angels who are faced with none of these obstacles is no comparison to their Zikr.

Abu Hurairah (RA) narrates that Rasulullah (صلي الله عليه وسلم) said that Allah Ta�ala says: I treat my servant according to his opinion of Me and I am with him when he remembers Me; if he remembers Me privately, I remember him privately and if he remembers Me in public, I remember him in a gathering (of the angels which is) better than his gathering

- Narrated by Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmizi, Nasai, Ibn-Majah, Ahmad

Imam Abu Da�ud records from Abu Hurairah (RA) that Rasulullah (صلي الله عليه وسلم) said: Never do a people gather in a house of Allah (Masjid) to recite the Book of Allah (Qur�an) and to learn and teach each other but that peace of heart, special mercies and Angels envelop them and Allah Ta�ala speaks of them before the angels.

Abu Hurairah and Hazrat Abu Sa�eed (RA) testify (upon oath) that Rasulullah (صلي الله عليه وسلم) said:

Any group of people who engage in the Zikr of Allah, the angels envelop them and mercy cascades upon them, tranquillity descends upon them and Allah remembers them in the presence of those who are by Him.

- Narrated by Muslim, Tirmizi, Ibn-Abi-Shaibah

Anas (RA) narrates that Rasulullah (صلي الله عليه وسلم) said: When you pass the gardens of paradise then graze well. They asked: What are the gardens of paradise? He replied: The gatherings of Zikr

Abdur Rahman bin Sahl bin Haneef (RA) reports that Rasulullah (صلي الله عليه وسلم) was in one of his homes when the following verse of the Qur�an was revealed:

واصبر نفسك مع الذين يدعون ربهم بالغداة والعشي

"and attach yourself with those who call out to their Rabb morning and evening" 18:28

Rasulullah (صلي الله عليه وسلم) came forth in search of the people mentioned in this verse. He found a group of engaged in the remembrance of Allah; among them were those with disheveled hair and parched skin and dressed only with a single garment. He came close to them and sat down among them exclaiming: All praise belongs to Allah for having made in my Ummah such people whom (even) I have been instructed to sit with.

- Narrated by Tabrani, Ibn-Jareer

Shaikh Zakariyya�s (R) commentary:

In one Hadith it has been narrated that he searched for them and found them at the back of the Masjid, engaged in the remembrance of Allah. He stated similar words to the above Hadith and said: You (really) are my companions in life and after death. Shaikh Ibrahim Nakhai (R) says: الذين يدعون  refers to those who are engaged in Zikr.

The establishment of Masajid for the purpose of Allah�s remembrance and obedience is evident; which includes actions such as Salaah, Tilawah, Azkaar, Wa�z, Dars, etc. Congregational Salaah is offered on fixed times, but the rest of the time, the Masjid is free for the performance of any Nafl Ibadah (voluntary acts). However, since the Masjid is a public place, it is regulated by certain etiquette in order to ensure that no person is disturbed by another in anyway. The Hadith clearly states that a true Muslim is one who does not cause inconvenience to the next Muslim by way of his tongue or hand.

The desirability of Zikr, whether individually or collectively has been established from the Ahadith. If the Majlis-Zikr is arranged in such a way so as not to cause inconvenience to those performing I�itikaaf or Salaah, there is no harm in it. This is documented by Maulana Khalil Ahmad (R) in his Fatawa-Khaliliyyah. In the annexture of Aadaabul-Masajid Maulana Thanwi (R) relates the famous view of Imam Sha�rani (R):

عن الامام الشعراني اجمع العلماء سلفا و خلفا علي استحباب ذكر الجماعة في المساجد و غيرها الا ان يشوش جهرهم علي نائم او مصل او قارئ

"It is reported on the authority of Imam Sha�rani (R): The Ulama�, past and present are unanimous upon the Istihbaab (meritoriousness) of Zikr gatherings in Masjids and elsewhere, except if their loud Zikr disturbs the rest of a person, a Musalli or a Qari (Reciter of Qur�an)."

By Shaykh Abd al-Hafiz Makki, translated by Mufti Zubair Bhayat

Edited by rami

With regard to dhikr recited in unison, the Standing Committee was asked about du�aa� and dhikr recited in unison, and they answered: 

The basic principle concerning dhikr and acts of worship is that there is no room for adding or subtracting anything. Allaah should only be worshipped in the ways that He has prescribed; this applies whether it is something that can be done at any time or something that is limited to a specific time and how it is to be done and how many times it is to be done. With regard to dhikrs and du�aa�s that Allaah has prescribed and all kinds of worship that are not limited with regard to time and numbers, location or a particular way in which they are to be done, it is not permissible for us to adhere to a particular way, time or number; rather we are to do these acts of worship without restrictions as it was prescribed.  

In matters where it isproven in the words or deeds of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that an action is to be done at a certain time or a certain number of times or in a certain place or in a certain manner, then we should worship Allaah in accordance with what has been prescribed. It has not been proven from the words or deeds or approval of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that he recited du�aa� in unison with others following the prayers, or after reading Qur�aan, or following each lesson, whether that took the form of the imaam reciting du�aa� and the congregation saying Ameen to his du�aa�, or whether they all recited du�aa� together in unison. That was not known at the time of the Rightly-Guided Khaleefahs or any of the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them). Whoever adheres to the practice of reciting du�aa� in unison following the prayers or after reading Qur�aan or after every lesson has innovated something and introduced into the religion something which is not a part of it. It was narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: �Whoever innovates something in this matter of ours (i.e. Islam) that is not part of it will have it rejected.� And he said: �Whoever does something that is not in accordance with this matter of ours (Islam) will have it rejected.� 

If it were prescribed to adhere to a certain way of doing it, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his successors (khulafa�) after him would have adhered to that. We have stated above that no such thing was proven from him or from his companions (may Allaah be pleased with them). All goodness is to be found in following the guidance of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the guidance of the Rightly-Guided Khulafa� (may Allaah be pleased with them); all evil is to be found in going against their guidance and following the innovated matters against which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) warned us by saying, �Beware of newly-innovated matters, for every innovation is misguidance.� May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions, and grant them peace. 

Fataawa Islamiyyah, 4/178

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