Mu’awiya as a Model of Islamic Governance

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  Do me a favour peacemaker - read what was written. sectarian theology has nothing to do with historical facts especially when sources are cited. 
dont start such issues in this sections- i dont understand ?
dont reply to a topic? dont site references? dont post a view in response to a statement?
I Thought this was QURAN AND SUNNAH- all of this content is sunnah. 

make peace by being just. just means not being bias. if there is a problem with the reply then that means there is a problem with the original post.
if u dont like the content - feel free to move the post. 
and join my forum sometime we need peacemakers.

fi aman allah

More On Muawiyah

Here is more evidence on Muawiyah from the History and Hadith:

================
On his Character
================
al-Hasan al-Basri said:

     Muawiyah had four flaws, and any one of them would have been a serious
     offense:

     1. His appointment of trouble makers for this community so that he
        stole its rule without consultation with its members, while there
        was a remnant of the Companions and possessors of virtue among
        them.

     2. His appointment of his son as his successor after him, a drunkard
        and a winebibber who wears silk and plays tunburs.

     3. His claim about Ziyad (as his son), while the Messenger of God
        (PBUH&HF) has said: 'The child belongs to the bed, and the
        adulterer should be stoned.'

     4. His killing of Hujr and his companions. Woe unto him twice for Hujr
        and his companions.

Sunni references :
- History of al-Tabari, English version, The Events of Year 51 AH, v8, p154
- History of Ibn al-Athir, v3, p242
- al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, by Ibn Kathir, v8, p130 who mentions the first
  crime as: "His fighting Ali."
- History of Ibn Kathir, v3, p242
- Khilafat Mulukiyat, Syed Abul Ala Maududi, pp 165-166

Here is some background on the Tragedy of Hujr:

======================
Who was Hujr Ibn 'Adi?
======================
In an effort to eradicate freedom of expression, Muawiyah started off with
the killing of Hujr, who was a famous Tabi'i and the respected Sahabi of
Imam Ali (AS). During the time of Muawiyah when Imam Ali (AS) was being
cursed from the pulpits of the mosques, it caused a lot of pain and grief
to the Muslims, but people were patient. However Hujr in Kufah could not
further bear this and in resistance Hujr used to praise Imam Ali (AS) and
curse Muawiyah. Mughairah who was the Governor of Kufah at that time was
considerate towards Hujr. However, during the Governership of Ziyad, when
Basra was also included with Kufah, differences emerged between Ziyad and
Hujr. Ziyad used to swear (say bad words) and Hujr used to reply to Ziyad.
During this period Hujr also corrected Ziyad when he delayed the Friday
Prayer. Eventually Hujr along with his twelve companions were arrested on
the following charges

     - Hujr had organized a group and he used to swear at Muawiyah
     - He instigates people to fight against Muawiyah
     - He claims that the Caliphate belongs to Imam Ali and his
       progeny (AS)
     - He supports Abu Turab (nickname of Imam Ali (AS))
     - He sends his blessings on Imam Ali (AS)

So under these charges, these personalities were sent to Muawiyah, and
Muawiyah ordered their killing. Before their execution, the executors said
to them:

     We have been ordered that if you show negative feelings towards Ali
     and curse him you shall be free to go, otherwise you shall have to die
     (shall be killed).

Upon hearing this Hujr and his companions refused to do what they were
asked to do, and Hujr replied:

     I can't utter those words from my tongue that would anger my Lord!

Following this they were killed, with the exception of Abdurrahman Ibn
Hassaan who was sent by Muawiyah to Ziyad with the order that Ziyad himself
should brutally kill him, and thereby, he was buried alive.

Sunni references :
- Histroy of al-Tabari, v4, pp 190-206
- al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v1, p135
- History of Ibn Kathir, v3, pp 234-242
- al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, v8, pp 50-55
- History of Ibn Khaldoon, v3

======================================
Reviving the Customs of the Jahiliyyah
======================================
Amputations of the head and moving the heads from one place to another,
the mistreatment of the dead bodies out of sheer passion of revenge, that
was prevalent during the days of ignorance (al-Jahiliyyah), started again
among the Muslims during this era.

Case 1:

     The very first head that was amputated from the body during the
     Islamic period was of Ammar Ibn Yasir (RA), the famous companion of
     the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF). Ahmad Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad
     narrates a tradition as follows, that has also been mentioned in the
     Tabaqat of Ibn Sa'd that:

          In the Battle of Siffin, when the head of Ammar Yasir (RA) was
          cut off and was taken to Muawiyah, two people were arguing over
          it, each one claiming that he had killed Ammar.

     Sunni references:
      - Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Traditions #6538, #6929 Printed in Dar al-
        Maarif, Egypt 1952
      - al-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v3, p253

Case 2:

     The second head that was amputated from the body was for Umro Ibn al-
     Hamaq, who was among the companions of the prophet (Allah's blessings
     on him and his cleansed progeny). Muawiyah alleged that he has
     participated in the assassination of Uthman. When efforts were carried
     out for his arrest, he hid in a cave, where a snake bit him. The
     people who were in his pursuit cut off the head from the dead body and
     took it to Ziyad. He then sent it to Muawiyah in Damascus, where the
     head was roamed around the city and was finally presented to his wife
     in her lap.

     Sunni references:
     - al-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v6, p25
     - al-Isti'ab, v2, p440
     - al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, v8, p48
     - Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, v8, p24

Case 3:

     The same atrocity was committed against Muhammad Ibn Abi Bakr (RA) who
     was the Governor for Imam Ali (AS) in Egypt. When Muawiyah captured
     Egypt, he was arrested and was killed. His dead body was placed in a
     belly of a dead donkey and then was brutally burnt.

     Sunni references:
     - al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v1, p235
     - History of al-Tabari, v4, p79
     - History of Ibn Kathir, v3, p180
     - History of Ibn Khaldoon, v2, p182

Case 4:

     After this, it became a tradition for people who sought vengeance
     after their enemies were killed. Imam Husain's (AS) head was
     amputated, and was taken from Karbala to Kufah and from Kufah to
     Damascus. The body of Imam Husain (AS) was brutally ruined by the
     running of horses.

     Sunni references
     - History of al-Tabari, v4, pp 349-351,356
     - History of Ibn Kathir, v3, pp 296-298
     - al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, v8, pp 189-192

=======================
On Some of his Accounts
=======================
Jalaluddin al-Suyuti worte:

     Ibn Asakir records on the authority of Hamid-b Hilal, that Akil the
     son  of Abu Talib begged of Ali and said , ' I am poor and needy,
     therefore give unto me. ' He replied, ' wait untill my stipend cometh
     with that of the other Muslims, and I will give unto thee with them,'
     but he was importunate and Ali said to a man, ' take him by the hand
     and go with him to the shops of the people of the market and say, '
     break these locks and take what is in these shops, ' Akil said, ' dost
     thou wish to make me a thief ?, ' Ali retorted, ' and dost thou wish
     to make me a thief that I should take the property of the Muslims and
     give it to thee, and not to them ?. ' He answered, ' I shall assuredly
     go to Muawiya. ' He replied,' that as thou wilest, ' and he went to
     Muawiya and begged of him, and he gave him a hundred thousand dirhams
     and said, ' get up on the pulpit and mention what Ali hath given to
     thee and what I have fiven thee.'  Then he mounted, and praised God
     and glorified him, and said,

            O people I tell ye, verily I tempted Ali in regard to his
            religion and he preferred his religion, and verily I tempted
                                                               ^^^^^^^^^
            Muawiyah in regard to his religion and he preferred me to his
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^^^^
            religion.
            ^^^^^^^^^

Sunni refernce: History of the Caliphs, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, English
                version, p208

al-Suyuti also recorded:

     al-Sha'abi said that the first who preached seated to the people was
     Muawiyah and that was when his flesh had increased and his stomach had
     grown large. (Recorded by Ibn Abi Shaybah). Az Zuhri states that
     Muawiya was the first who introduced the discourse before prayers on
     the Eid. (Abdur Razzaq in his Musannaf). And Said-b-ul Musayyab says
     that he was the first who introduced the call to prayers on the Eid,
     (Ibn Abi Shaybah), and he who diminished the number of Takbirs.

Sunni refernce: History of the Caliphs, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, English
                version, p204

======================
Raising Quran on Spear
======================
In addition to the atrocities commited by Muawiyah, perhaps his act of
raising the Quran on the spear against Imam Ali (AS) in the Battle of
Siffin undoubtedly reflects on his character as a ruler, a person that
would resort to any means to make his plan a success. He played with the
book of Allah in order to deceive the naive people. As a result of this
trick, al-Khawarij (those who believed Imam Ali is politheist and
unbeliever) emerged in the history of Islam.

Ibn Sa'd reports a tradition from al-Zuhri that:

     At the eve of the Battle of Siffin when fight was at it's peak and
     people had started to loose hope, Amr Ibn al-Aas said to Muawiyah:
     Accept my proposal and order the people (i.e., army of Muawiyah) to
     open the Quran (i.e., raise the Quran on spears) and say, O people of
     Iraq, we call you towards the Quran, and we decide by virtue of what
     is contained in it from al-Hamd to al-Naas.

     This act will create dissension in the ranks and file of the Iraqis
     and will create hopes for the people of Shaam. Thereby Muawiyah
     accpeted his proposal. (to do as he said).

Sunni references:
- Tabaqat of Ibn Sa'd, v4, p255 as per
- Khilafat Mulikiyat, Abul Ala Maududi, p345

The same fact has been mentioned in great detail by al-Tabari, Ibn Kathir,
Ibn al-Athir, and Ibn Khaldoon. The purpose behind the propsal was to
create dissension in the ranks and file of Imam Ali's (as) army, and even
if they accept the proposal (of calling towards the Quran), Muawiya's army
would manage to buy time to delay the battle.

Sunni references:
- History of al-Tabari, v4, p34
- al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, by Ibn Katir, v7, p272
- Histoty of Ibn al-Athir, v3, p160
- History of Ibn Khaldoon, v2, p174
- Khilafat Mulukiyat, Maududi, p345

================================================
Muawiyah and the Origin of the word "al-Jama'ah"
================================================
al-Tabari recorded that:

     Sajah remained with Banu Taghlib untill Muawiya transferred them in
     his days on the "year of the union (al-Jama'ah)". When the people of
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     Iraq agreed [to recognize] Muawiyah [as caliph] after Ali, Muawiyah
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^
     took to expelling from al-Kufa those who had been vehement in the
     cause of Ali, and to settle in their homes those people of Syrai and
     al-Basrah and the Jazirah who were most vehement in his own cause; it
     was they who were called the "transfers" in the garrison towns.

     [ The translator of the work writes in reference to the year of the
     union as follows: ]

     Aam al-Jama'ah the year 40 A.H/A.D 660-661, so called because the
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^
     Muslim Community came together in recognizing Muawiyah, ending the
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     political division of the first civil war. Pace Caetani, 648; see Abu
     Zahrah al-Dimashqi, Tarikh, 188 (no. 101) and 190 (no. 105)

Sunni reference: History of al-Tabari, English version, v10, p97

Jalaluddin al-Suyuti mentions this very fact, with the utmost clarity in
his work, History of the Caliphs (Tarikhul Khulafa) with the following
words:

     al-Dhahabi says that Ka'ab died before Muawiyah was made caliph, and
     that Ka'ab was right in what he said, for Muawiyah continued for
     twenty years, and none of the princess of the earth contended with
     him, unlike others who came after him, for they had opponents and
     portions of their dominions passed out of their sway. Muawiyah went
     forth against Ali as has preceded, and assumed the title of Caliph.
     Then he marched against al-Hasan, who abdicted in his favor. He
     therefore became firmly eshtablished in his Caliphate from Rabi'iul
     Akhir or Jumadal Awwal 41 AH. The year was therefore called the Year
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     of the Union (al-Jama'ah), on account of the gathering of the people
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
     under one Caliph. During this year Muawiyah appointed Marwan Ibn al-
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     Hakam over Medina.

Sunni refernce: History of the Caliphs, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, English
                version, p204 (Chapter of Muawiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan)

========================
The Scribe of Revelation
========================
A a pro-Umayad mentioned that:

     Muawiyah was a scribe of the revelation. Is your character judgement
     better then that of the Prophet?

In the previous parts, I have given the opinion of the Prophet (PBUH&HF)
about those who will fight Ahlul-Bayt based of the most authentic Sunni
collections of the traditions. According to the opinion of the Prophet,
such people were hypocrites and infidels.

Muawiyah and his father Abu Sufyan were among those who fought the Prophet
till last minutes and when they found that Mecca will be captured shortly
and their turn is over, they decided to go under the guise of Islam to save
their life and to destroy Islam from inside. This is what Abu Sufyan, his
son Muawiyah and his grandson Yazid were trying to achieve every day and
night. Now they suddenly became the Scribe of Revelation! Here is the
reason behind it:

>From the time the Caliphate fell into the hands of the Umayad, they strove
to distort the truth and turn everything head over heels. They, thus,
elevated to the zenith of power people who were, during the life of the
Prophet (PBUH&HF), ordinary, with no special standing, while they ignored
others who were at the peak of honor and nobility during the lifetime of
the Prophet (PBUH&HF).

Their sole criterion in for honor and dishonor, was their intense enmity
and excessive hatred for Muhammad (PBUH&HF) and the members of his
household, Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan and al-Husain, peace be upon them. The
Umayad elevated the status, and fabricated false traditions, on the merits
of every person who opposed the Prophet (PBUH&HF) and his Ahlul-Bayt whom
Allah has purified and from whom He removed all abomination in Quran. They
sought nearness to those who opposed the Prophet, accorded them high
positions and grants so that they enjoyed favors and respect among the
populace. They sought to denigrate, fabricate defects, falsify reports that
denied the superiority and merits of anyone who used to love the Prophet
(PBUH&HF) and would defend him.

Thus Umar Ibn al-Khattab, who used to dispute every command of the Prophet
of Allah (PBUH&HF), even accusing the latter of hallucination in his last
days, became the hero of Islam amongst the Muslims during the time of the
Umayad dynasty.

On the other hand, Ali Ibn Abi Talib who was, to him, what Aaron was to
Moses, and who loved him, and who was loved by Allah and His Prophet, he
who was the guardian of every believer, was cursed from the pulpits for
eighty years. The effect of false propaganda reached to the point that when
the news of assassination of Imam Ali (AS) during the Fajr prayer in Mosque
reached to the people of Syria, they were surprised and asked if Ali used
to pray!

Similarly Aisha, who caused the Prophet of Allah (PBUH&HF) much torment and
disobeyed his instructions and the instructions of her Lord, rose against
the successor of the Messenger of Allah and caused the worst strife known
to the Muslims, a strife which resulted in the death of thousands of
Muslims, became the most famous lady in Islam, with religious rulings being
accepted from her. But Fatimah al-Zahra, the leader of the women of this
world and the world after, she for whom the Lord gets angry if she becomes
angry, and she for whom the Lord is happy when she is happy, became a
forgotten woman, and was buried in the secrecy of the night, after they had
threatened to burn her, and after they forced the door of her house against
her stomach, causing her to lose her child. You can hardly find one amongst
Sunnis who knows a single Hadith which she reported from her father. This
is while their books are replete with the traditions of Aisha simply
because she was the only woman who fought Imam Ali (AS).

Similarly, Yazid Ibn Muawiyah, Ziyad, the son of his father, Ibn Marjanah,
Marwan, al-Hajjaj, Ibn al-Aas, and others from the accursed tree mentioned
in Quran, and who were cursed by the tongue of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), they
became the commanders of the believers and the guardians of their affairs.
As for al-Hasan and al-Husain, the masters of the youths of paradise, the
delights of the Prophet of this nation, the Imams from the progeny of the
Prophet (PBUH&HF), the custodians of this Ummah, they were banished,
imprisoned, murdered, and poisoned. In this way, Abu Sufyan the hypocrite,
the leader in every battle that was waged against the Prophet, came to be
praised and thanked. As for Abu Talib, the protector and defender of the
Prophet (PBUH&HF) with all that he had, who passed his life in hostility
with his people and relatives for the sake of his nephew's call, so much so
that he spent three years in the enclave with the Prophet in the valley of
Mecca, keeping his belief secret, for the benefit of Islam, that some
bridges remained still open with the Quraish and so that they would not
persecute the Muslims as they wished (he was like the believer from the
family of Pharaoh who hid his belief; see Quran 40:28), Abu Talib's alleged
reward turns out to be a pair of slippers in the hellfire, his feet placed
into it and his brain is popping out from the pain!!!

In this way, Mu'awiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan, who was the freed man, son of the
freed man, the accursed one, and the son of an accursed one, he who used to
play with the injunctions of Allah and His Prophet, not attaching any
importance to it, he who used to murder the upright and innocent ones so as
to pursue his vile goals and would revile the Prophet of Allah (PBUH&HF)
while the Muslims would see and hear, became known as the scribe of
revelation!!! They say that Allah entrusted His revelation to Gabriel,
Muhammad and Muawiyah. He also came to be described as a man of wisdom,
political acumen and reflection.

As for Abu Dharr al-Ghifari, the earth did not carry nor the sky did put
its shadow on anyone more truthful in speech than him; he was treated as
a mischief monger. He was beaten, exiled and banished to Rabdha. Salman,
Miqdad, Ammar and Hudaifah and all the sincere companions who took Imam Ali
as their leader and followed him, they met with punishment, banishment and
murder.

Similarly, those who followed the school of the Caliphs, the followers of
Muawiyah and the companions of the schools founded by the tyrannical
rulers, they turned out to be Ahl al-Sunnah wal-Jama'a and they represented
Islam. Whoever opposed them was judged to be a disbeliever.

As for those who followed the school of the Ahlul-Bayt and followed the
gate to the city of knowledge and the first one to accept Islam, he whom
the truth revolved around wherever he was, those who followed the Ahlul-
Bayt and the infallible Imams came to be considered as the people of
innovation and misguidance, and whoever opposed and fought against them
came to be seen as a Muslim.

Surely there is no power and no strength except with Allah, the Highest,
and the most Powerful. Allah surely spoke the truth when He said:

     "If it is said to them; 'Make not any mischief on earth', they say:
     'We are the righteous ones'. Certainly they are indeed the corrupt
     ones but they do not realize it. And if it is said to them: 'Believe
     as other people have believed' they say: 'Shall we believe as the
     st**id ones believe'? They are the st**id ones, though they know it
     not.'" (Quran 2:13)

 ************************************************************ **************
==============
A Side Comment
==============
A brother mentioned that one may kill another with good intention and with
love towrd each other and both (the killer and the killed one) would go to
Paradise. We have the example of Prophet Abraham (Ibrahim) who recieved
commandment to kill his son, Ismail, though it was just a test and Allah
wanted to test both of them, and finally they slaughtered a ship by Allah's
command.

The above incedent is true. However, there is a falacy hiden in the above
argument. Abraham (AS) was a prophet and the order (to sacrifice his
son) was given by God through revelation. Also he did not FIGHT with
Isma'il, nor Ismail FOUGHT back. It was the order of Allah, and both father
and son were SUBMESSIVE to that. There was NO dispute between them.

But let me ask you this question: Did Talha and Zubair received revelation
from God to kill people?  Did Quran tell them to fight against their
legitimate Caliph? If so, why not against the first three Caliphs?

Did Muawiyah and Marwan received revelation of ordering people to curse
Imam Ali (AS) and make it a popular habit of people? ... And finally, they
slaughtered the whole household of Prophet (PBUH&HF) including his beloved
son (grandson) in the same way. Do You believe when somebody is ready to
kill the whole house-hold of prophet, he refrains or is afraid of cursing
them? LA WALLAH ...

- Is cursing Imam Ali a sign of love and good intention?
- Is shedding the blood of thousands of innocent Muslims a sign of
  affection and obedience to Allah?
- Is erdicating the houshold of the Prophet a sign of love toward them?

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
rami Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Male Joined: 01 March 2000 Status: Offline Points: 2549	Post Options Post Reply Quote rami Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Mu’awiya as a Model of Islamic Governance Posted: 18 October 2007 at 10:24pm
	Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem Take your own advice and reply in a cordial manner rather than an antagonistic one. since the first question was over-simplistic -i'll rephrase: do you like muawiyah? Im indifferent, there are ahadith highlighting his bad qualities and there are others highlighting his good only shia like to make a point and judge in absolutes terms. 2- i think u are confusing the word sunni and the term sunni. in arabic sunni means traditional - of the sunnah (the way of the prophet). orthodox and traditional are not synonymous. A term is a word and we are called sunni's specifically becouse of the meaning of that word i.e those who follow the sunnah of the prophet. Websters dictionary, Orthodox: 1 a: conforming to established doctrine especially in religion Tradition: 1 a: an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (as a religious practice or a social custom) b: a belief or story or a body of beliefs or stories relating to the past that are commonly accepted as historical though not verifiable2: the handing down of information, beliefs, and customs by word of mouth or by example from one generation to another without written instruction3: cultural continuity in social attitudes, customs, and institutions4: characteristic manner, method, or style <in the best liberal tradition> They are inseparable in this context, unless you learn the meaning of words from journalists who cant write and routinely misuse and abuse the English language. also- what the prophet said was there is no god but allah and i am the last messenger. Whats your point Sunni Islam is not a sect it is traditional islam, it is idiotic to label 90% of all muslims on earth a sect it is the main body of the religion not a small group in it. shia literaly means partisan and by that definition it is a group and or sect. Those who didnt side with them remained with the main body of muslims who followed the sunnah hence the term sunni. before the death of the prophet there were no sects or disputes. How does that invalidate anything, you are obliged to follow the Quran and sunnah of the prophet do you derive legal rulings from the quran and sunnah yourself. How do you know what is or isnt part of Islam, by some simplistic cursory analysis of some verses and ahadith or by a comprehensive studies into each and every topic mentioned in the quran and sunnah. i wont get into some of the debateable hadith which u quoted- Pleas do, unless you have hard evidence regarding the authenticity of the hadith you have committed a serious sin by labeling them false. lets focus on something even more simple and clear. the quran. it says obey allah,obey the messenger and those of you who have authority/ who are vested with knowledge. again the interpretation can also be debated. if someone is like u - a hardcore sunni muslim you would interpret the last part of the ayat as being for example umar or maybe abu hurraira and if u are shia then u would interpret it as being ali. You havnt shown a different interpretation than the one i gave which is simply that allah has placed some people in authority and people are obliged to follow them, if you are confused about who these people are in our lifetime this does not negate the fact that they exist. If you havdnt noticed Saydinah Umar, Abu hurayrah and Ali are all dead so no i am not reffering to them but people alive today, The Quran is for all time and so is Allahs commands if there isnt any person whom allah has guided then we couldnt follow this command can we. You may have also missed the fact that Sunni muslims follow Sayidinah Ali as much as Shia do, if you learnt about sunni islam from shia sources i can understand your confusion. You need to take off your shia sunni glasses and look at what im saying without such preconceptions as you have misunderstood what i was saying. In light of what i said ""Why should we follow a madhhab [shia or sunni] instead of our own understanding of the religion?"" it should have been clear that i wasnt passing judgment on who was right sunni's or shia but indicating the basic fact applicable to both sunni's and shia and agreed upon by both sunni and shia scholars that a person has to follow the legal rulings of an expert rather than try to come up with there own. There is no disagreement on this basic point by any ulumah in any group you could name they all agree with this, despite our differences we agree with our shia brothers on many fundamental things they simply say these people can only come from ahl al bayt we say not necessarily, neither disagree on the fact that these people exist. ur right everyone else is wrong...adn going to hell. I never said that. 3-in ur bias reply to how many sects there are u did not answer the question. Actually i did 73, and that is the only number that counts. u just again divided everything into sunni and non sunni. fyi shia is not a new sect. 73 groups? that is unclear. firstly where is that hadith and is it reliable. granted it is - is this ur own scholarly interpretation as to what "group" refers to? i said according to what rasul allah's definition of a group is we will divide into 73 sects and only one will be on the right path, i didnt pass judgment on who this was or how it was defined. My Questions where to ascertain your understanding of what a sect is and to see if you are confusing labels, since you wont answer the question ill elaborate. Wahhabi's and Habashi's are sects within sunni islam, there a sect based upon the diferant fiqh issues they have with the majority of muslims who adhere to the madhhabs. Sufi's are not a sect there a people who practice tassawuf the science of ihsan [different from the science of fiqh], they can be both sunni or shia and they can adhere to differant schools of fiqh, so they can be a sunni, sufi and hanafi all at the same time. Though some Sufi groups have gone to far in there practice and can be called a sect. Ahmadi's are a sect which came from Islam and are no longer considered muslims. Most uneducated muslims who have a label fobia simply say there are to many groups and sects, you have sunni, shia, wahhabi, sufi, habashi, ahmadi thinking these are all groups by the same criteria and just reject everything without real knowledge of what is going on. and whether or not that statement refered to religious sects? and do u think that unity amongst muslims is better or division amongst various sects...and we can argue for an eternity about how many there are? Are muslims separate from sunnis and shia now to differentiate the way you have? 4-when u are not a scholar then like the ayat i quoted u should follow someone who is - a scholar, one vested with knoledge, a religious authority. and what scholar do u follow? Why dont you follow your own advice and follow a scholar, first you have to decide if it is going to be a sunni scholar or a shia scholar you have no other alternative. you missed my Double quotes "" everything in these is a quote of a Ulama not my own words, i even gave you the links to the articles i took them from. So no i dont understand you advice as i clearly am following the interpretation of a scholar. and seriously..lol..if u have no certainty in your research why should anyone else... I didnt say that at all, i said i had certainty in the Imams and that i wasnt presenting my own personnel views on the matter. Edited by rami
	Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

sulooni Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 04 January 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 103	Post Options Post Reply Quote sulooni Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 October 2007 at 8:34pm
	since the first question was over-simplistic -i'll rephrase: do you like muawiyah? 2- i think u are confusing the word sunni and the term sunni. in arabic sunni means traditional - of the sunnah (the way of the prophet). orthodox and traditional are not synonymous. also- what the prophet said was there is no god but allah and i am the last messenger. before the death of the prophet there were no sects or disputes. i wont get into some of the debateable hadith which u quoted- lets focus on something even more simple and clear. the quran. it says obey allah,obey the messenger and those of you who have authority/ who are vested with knowledge. again the interpretation can also be debated. if someone is like u - a hardcore sunni muslim you would interpret the last part of the ayat as being for example umar or maybe abu hurraira and if u are shia then u would interpret it as being ali. my point is? - very simple : stop falling into the divide and conquer traps, and judging everyone. rest assure that unless you are infallible which u are definitely not, like all humans for that matter then beware of satans traps...this is the easiest one - ur right everyone else is wrong...adn going to hell. 3-in ur bias reply to how many sects there are u did not answer the question. u just again divided everything into sunni and non sunni. fyi shia is not a new sect. 73 groups? that is unclear. firstly where is that hadith and is it reliable. granted it is - is this ur own scholarly interpretation as to what "group" refers to? and whether or not that statement refered to religious sects? and do u think that unity amongst muslims is better or division amongst various sects...and we can argue for an eternity about how many there are? 4-when u are not a scholar then like the ayat i quoted u should follow someone who is - a scholar, one vested with knoledge, a religious authority. and what scholar do u follow? and seriously..lol..if u have no certainty in your research why should anyone else...
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rami Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Male Joined: 01 March 2000 Status: Offline Points: 2549	Post Options Post Reply Quote rami Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 October 2007 at 6:36am
	Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem do u like mawiyah that much that u can't bear to read about his disgracefulness? You have an over simplistic view of the subject, it is not a matter of like or dislike if you would uphold a lie simply becouse you like it or hide a truth becouse you dislike it then this is despicable behavior. To simplify the subject to such a degree is an indication of your train of thought, i dont think like you so please dont use your reasoning to explain mine you will fall short. was the prophet sunni or shia? He was sunni by the definition of the word and according to his teachings. But answering the question according to how you intended it, As Islam stands some 1400 years after the time of the prophet [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] it is fard for you to practice what the He taught and what the Quran says, according to the Quran itself you are obliged, duty bound and will be held accountable if you do not follow expert opinion regarding the legal injuctions of the Quran unless you are qualafied to deduce your own legal rullings from the Quran and sunnah. Why should we follow a madhhab [shia or sunni] instead of our own understanding of the religion? After understanding what a madhhab actually is rather than some vague understanding based upon gossip the answer to this has to come from two sources The revealed guidance, whether the sunnah and/or the quran and our intalect, this is because the Quran and sunnah guides and validates our reasoning, while the intalect is needed to apply general principles found in the Quran to every day life. "Ask those who recall if you know not" (Qur�an 16:43), This verse indicates that Allah has people on earth who he has guided to know his religion, it also instructs us to ask them about the matter we don�t know thus giving people authority to say what is right and what is wrong after the prophets time. We also know from this verse ""and in Surat al-Nisa, " If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter " (Qur'an 4:83), in which the phrase those of them whose task it is to find it out, expresses the words "alladhina yastanbitunahu minhum", referring to those possessing the capacity to draw inferences directly from the evidence, which is called in Arabic istinbat. These and other verses and hadiths oblige the believer who is not at the level of istinbat or directly deriving rulings from the Qur'an and hadith to ask and follow someone in such rulings who is at this level. It is not difficult to see why Allah has obliged us to ask experts, for if each of us were personally responsible for evaluating all the primary texts relating to each question, a lifetime of study would hardly be enough for it, and one would either have to give up earning a living or give up ones din."" http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/madhhab.htm Also regarding the above verse ""Whoever makes ijtihad without this qualification is a criminal. The proof of this is the hadith that the Companion Jabir ibn �Abdullah said: We went on a journey, and a stone struck one of us and opened a gash in his head. When he later had a wet-dream in his sleep, he then asked his companions, "Do you find any dispensation for me to perform dry ablution (tayammum)?" [Meaning instead of a full purificatory bath (ghusl).] They told him, "We don�t find any dispensation for you if you can use water." So he performed the purificatory bath and his wound opened and he died. When we came to the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), he was told of this and he said: "They have killed him, may Allah kill them. Why did they not ask?�for they didn�t know. The only cure for someone who does not know what to say is to ask" (Abu Dawud, 1.93). This hadith, which was related by Abu Dawud, is well authenticated (hasan), and every Muslim who has any taqwa should reflect on it carefully, for the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) indicated in it�in the strongest language possible�that to judge on a rule of Islam on the basis of insufficient knowledge is a crime. And like it is the well authenticated hadith "Whoever is given a legal opinion (fatwa) without knowledge, his sin is but upon the person who gave him the opinion" (Abu Dawud, 3.321). http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/madhhabstlk.htm "Not all of the believers should go to fight. Of every section of them, why does not one part alone go forth, that the rest may gain understanding of the religion, and to admonish their people when they return, that perhaps they may take warning" (Qur�an 9:122) ""where the expression li yatafaqqahu fi al-din, "to gain understanding of the religion," is derived from precisely the same root (f-q-h) as the word fiqh or "jurisprudence," and is what Western students of Arabic would call a "fifth-form verb" (tafa��ala), which indicates that the meaning contained in the root, understanding, is accomplished through careful, sustained effort."" The verse indicates that a group of people in the ummah should dedicate there lives to learning the religion and admonishing others which gives authority for the systematic scholarship we have and the ijazah system we currently implement. A person can rationally conclude from this that what muslims have developed and refined in the madhhabs has authority in islam and is an indication of divine guidance for this ummah, so one must decide which legal scholars are on the truth, to deny that any exist would be to claim Allah did not preserve his religion or guide his people as he stated in the Quran. how many sects of muslims are there? That depends on if you have invented a new meaning for the word or are following the islamic defanition. A religion can not be entirely comprised of sects, you have the orthodox understanding [sunni] and then you have the new [shia,mutazilli etc]. According to rasul allah's definition we will be split into 73 groups and only one will be on the right path. Some simple question sister, are sufi's, wahhabi's, Habashis, deobandi's, berweli's a sect the same way shia are a sect in islam? Do you consider ahmadi's to be an islamic sect what about nusairi's in syria? are you a scholar? No, i try as best i can to give the scholars opinion regarding matters rather than my own which is why i may seem stern in my words becouse it's not certainty in my research that i am portraying.
	Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

sulooni Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 04 January 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 103	Post Options Post Reply Quote sulooni Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 17 October 2007 at 10:17pm
	rami rami rami.... answer me a few questions? do u like mawiyah that much that u can't bear to read about his disgracefulness? was the prophet sunni or shia? how many sects of muslims are there? are you a scholar? and always remember to be kind in ur speech...don't u think that is how the prophet spoke to his daughter or to his companions? take care my dear friend rami rami rami and also rember this is quran and sunnah forum... try to stay within the topic please! thank you much Edited by sulooni
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rami Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Male Joined: 01 March 2000 Status: Offline Points: 2549	Post Options Post Reply Quote rami Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 October 2007 at 9:23pm
	Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem Any person who says he is not a sunni or shia but simply a muslim has no clue about anything in there religion this is a simple fact. You dont seem to able to follow instructions, you are posting in the wrong section that isnt to hard to understand now is it. You may have started your own forum but you dont seem to know how to run one.
	Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

sulooni Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 04 January 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 103	Post Options Post Reply Quote sulooni Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 October 2007 at 7:56pm
	personally i am not sunni or shia rather i am muslim what about u? either way - oppressive governance is oppressive governance - and if this is about the sunnah of nabi rasullulah (pbuh) then since when did he not stand up to injustice and or oppression. this was the prophet's view - this was not the sunni or shia view. case and point: it is a fact that the saudia arabian government provided israeli troops with fuel for their planes for them to be able to go and bomb muslims. so on one hand i can say that obviously they are wrong and i can go on about the numerous hadith of governance with ill-will - yet on the other hand i can shy away from this and say because i can not offer a logical rebuttle - allahu a'lam -that is always true. and of course Allah is the best of judges, so stop being so judgmental... Edited by sulooni
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rami Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Male Joined: 01 March 2000 Status: Offline Points: 2549	Post Options Post Reply Quote rami Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 October 2007 at 11:45am
	Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem Only shia bother to say "Sunni refrences", if you are shia then no matter what the refrence your post belongs in Intrafaith since you are offering the shia interpretation of sunni ahadith. The sunni view of muawiyah is that we leave the judgment up to allah.
	Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

sulooni Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 04 January 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 103	Post Options Post Reply Quote sulooni Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 October 2007 at 11:14am
	Do me a favour peacemaker - read what was written. sectarian theology has nothing to do with historical facts especially when sources are cited. dont start such issues in this sections- i dont understand ? dont reply to a topic? dont site references? dont post a view in response to a statement? I Thought this was QURAN AND SUNNAH- all of this content is sunnah. make peace by being just. just means not being bias. if there is a problem with the reply then that means there is a problem with the original post. if u dont like the content - feel free to move the post. and join my forum sometime we need peacemakers. fi aman allah More On Muawiyah Here is more evidence on Muawiyah from the History and Hadith: ================ On his Character ================ al-Hasan al-Basri said: Muawiyah had four flaws, and any one of them would have been a serious offense: 1. His appointment of trouble makers for this community so that he stole its rule without consultation with its members, while there was a remnant of the Companions and possessors of virtue among them. 2. His appointment of his son as his successor after him, a drunkard and a winebibber who wears silk and plays tunburs. 3. His claim about Ziyad (as his son), while the Messenger of God (PBUH&HF) has said: 'The child belongs to the bed, and the adulterer should be stoned.' 4. His killing of Hujr and his companions. Woe unto him twice for Hujr and his companions. Sunni references : - History of al-Tabari, English version, The Events of Year 51 AH, v8, p154 - History of Ibn al-Athir, v3, p242 - al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, by Ibn Kathir, v8, p130 who mentions the first crime as: "His fighting Ali." - History of Ibn Kathir, v3, p242 - Khilafat Mulukiyat, Syed Abul Ala Maududi, pp 165-166 Here is some background on the Tragedy of Hujr: ====================== Who was Hujr Ibn 'Adi? ====================== In an effort to eradicate freedom of expression, Muawiyah started off with the killing of Hujr, who was a famous Tabi'i and the respected Sahabi of Imam Ali (AS). During the time of Muawiyah when Imam Ali (AS) was being cursed from the pulpits of the mosques, it caused a lot of pain and grief to the Muslims, but people were patient. However Hujr in Kufah could not further bear this and in resistance Hujr used to praise Imam Ali (AS) and curse Muawiyah. Mughairah who was the Governor of Kufah at that time was considerate towards Hujr. However, during the Governership of Ziyad, when Basra was also included with Kufah, differences emerged between Ziyad and Hujr. Ziyad used to swear (say bad words) and Hujr used to reply to Ziyad. During this period Hujr also corrected Ziyad when he delayed the Friday Prayer. Eventually Hujr along with his twelve companions were arrested on the following charges - Hujr had organized a group and he used to swear at Muawiyah - He instigates people to fight against Muawiyah - He claims that the Caliphate belongs to Imam Ali and his progeny (AS) - He supports Abu Turab (nickname of Imam Ali (AS)) - He sends his blessings on Imam Ali (AS) So under these charges, these personalities were sent to Muawiyah, and Muawiyah ordered their killing. Before their execution, the executors said to them: We have been ordered that if you show negative feelings towards Ali and curse him you shall be free to go, otherwise you shall have to die (shall be killed). Upon hearing this Hujr and his companions refused to do what they were asked to do, and Hujr replied: I can't utter those words from my tongue that would anger my Lord! Following this they were killed, with the exception of Abdurrahman Ibn Hassaan who was sent by Muawiyah to Ziyad with the order that Ziyad himself should brutally kill him, and thereby, he was buried alive. Sunni references : - Histroy of al-Tabari, v4, pp 190-206 - al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v1, p135 - History of Ibn Kathir, v3, pp 234-242 - al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, v8, pp 50-55 - History of Ibn Khaldoon, v3 ====================================== Reviving the Customs of the Jahiliyyah ====================================== Amputations of the head and moving the heads from one place to another, the mistreatment of the dead bodies out of sheer passion of revenge, that was prevalent during the days of ignorance (al-Jahiliyyah), started again among the Muslims during this era. Case 1: The very first head that was amputated from the body during the Islamic period was of Ammar Ibn Yasir (RA), the famous companion of the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF). Ahmad Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad narrates a tradition as follows, that has also been mentioned in the Tabaqat of Ibn Sa'd that: In the Battle of Siffin, when the head of Ammar Yasir (RA) was cut off and was taken to Muawiyah, two people were arguing over it, each one claiming that he had killed Ammar. Sunni references: - Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Traditions #6538, #6929 Printed in Dar al- Maarif, Egypt 1952 - al-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v3, p253 Case 2: The second head that was amputated from the body was for Umro Ibn al- Hamaq, who was among the companions of the prophet (Allah's blessings on him and his cleansed progeny). Muawiyah alleged that he has participated in the assassination of Uthman. When efforts were carried out for his arrest, he hid in a cave, where a snake bit him. The people who were in his pursuit cut off the head from the dead body and took it to Ziyad. He then sent it to Muawiyah in Damascus, where the head was roamed around the city and was finally presented to his wife in her lap. Sunni references: - al-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v6, p25 - al-Isti'ab, v2, p440 - al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, v8, p48 - Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, v8, p24 Case 3: The same atrocity was committed against Muhammad Ibn Abi Bakr (RA) who was the Governor for Imam Ali (AS) in Egypt. When Muawiyah captured Egypt, he was arrested and was killed. His dead body was placed in a belly of a dead donkey and then was brutally burnt. Sunni references: - al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v1, p235 - History of al-Tabari, v4, p79 - History of Ibn Kathir, v3, p180 - History of Ibn Khaldoon, v2, p182 Case 4: After this, it became a tradition for people who sought vengeance after their enemies were killed. Imam Husain's (AS) head was amputated, and was taken from Karbala to Kufah and from Kufah to Damascus. The body of Imam Husain (AS) was brutally ruined by the running of horses. Sunni references - History of al-Tabari, v4, pp 349-351,356 - History of Ibn Kathir, v3, pp 296-298 - al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, v8, pp 189-192 ======================= On Some of his Accounts ======================= Jalaluddin al-Suyuti worte: Ibn Asakir records on the authority of Hamid-b Hilal, that Akil the son of Abu Talib begged of Ali and said , ' I am poor and needy, therefore give unto me. ' He replied, ' wait untill my stipend cometh with that of the other Muslims, and I will give unto thee with them,' but he was importunate and Ali said to a man, ' take him by the hand and go with him to the shops of the people of the market and say, ' break these locks and take what is in these shops, ' Akil said, ' dost thou wish to make me a thief ?, ' Ali retorted, ' and dost thou wish to make me a thief that I should take the property of the Muslims and give it to thee, and not to them ?. ' He answered, ' I shall assuredly go to Muawiya. ' He replied,' that as thou wilest, ' and he went to Muawiya and begged of him, and he gave him a hundred thousand dirhams and said, ' get up on the pulpit and mention what Ali hath given to thee and what I have fiven thee.' Then he mounted, and praised God and glorified him, and said, O people I tell ye, verily I tempted Ali in regard to his religion and he preferred his religion, and verily I tempted ^^^^^^^^^ Muawiyah in regard to his religion and he preferred me to his ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^^^^ religion. ^^^^^^^^^ Sunni refernce: History of the Caliphs, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, English version, p208 al-Suyuti also recorded: al-Sha'abi said that the first who preached seated to the people was Muawiyah and that was when his flesh had increased and his stomach had grown large. (Recorded by Ibn Abi Shaybah). Az Zuhri states that Muawiya was the first who introduced the discourse before prayers on the Eid. (Abdur Razzaq in his Musannaf). And Said-b-ul Musayyab says that he was the first who introduced the call to prayers on the Eid, (Ibn Abi Shaybah), and he who diminished the number of Takbirs. Sunni refernce: History of the Caliphs, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, English version, p204 ====================== Raising Quran on Spear ====================== In addition to the atrocities commited by Muawiyah, perhaps his act of raising the Quran on the spear against Imam Ali (AS) in the Battle of Siffin undoubtedly reflects on his character as a ruler, a person that would resort to any means to make his plan a success. He played with the book of Allah in order to deceive the naive people. As a result of this trick, al-Khawarij (those who believed Imam Ali is politheist and unbeliever) emerged in the history of Islam. Ibn Sa'd reports a tradition from al-Zuhri that: At the eve of the Battle of Siffin when fight was at it's peak and people had started to loose hope, Amr Ibn al-Aas said to Muawiyah: Accept my proposal and order the people (i.e., army of Muawiyah) to open the Quran (i.e., raise the Quran on spears) and say, O people of Iraq, we call you towards the Quran, and we decide by virtue of what is contained in it from al-Hamd to al-Naas. This act will create dissension in the ranks and file of the Iraqis and will create hopes for the people of Shaam. Thereby Muawiyah accpeted his proposal. (to do as he said). Sunni references: - Tabaqat of Ibn Sa'd, v4, p255 as per - Khilafat Mulikiyat, Abul Ala Maududi, p345 The same fact has been mentioned in great detail by al-Tabari, Ibn Kathir, Ibn al-Athir, and Ibn Khaldoon. The purpose behind the propsal was to create dissension in the ranks and file of Imam Ali's (as) army, and even if they accept the proposal (of calling towards the Quran), Muawiya's army would manage to buy time to delay the battle. Sunni references: - History of al-Tabari, v4, p34 - al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, by Ibn Katir, v7, p272 - Histoty of Ibn al-Athir, v3, p160 - History of Ibn Khaldoon, v2, p174 - Khilafat Mulukiyat, Maududi, p345 ================================================ Muawiyah and the Origin of the word "al-Jama'ah" ================================================ al-Tabari recorded that: Sajah remained with Banu Taghlib untill Muawiya transferred them in his days on the "year of the union (al-Jama'ah)". When the people of ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Iraq agreed [to recognize] Muawiyah [as caliph] after Ali, Muawiyah ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ took to expelling from al-Kufa those who had been vehement in the cause of Ali, and to settle in their homes those people of Syrai and al-Basrah and the Jazirah who were most vehement in his own cause; it was they who were called the "transfers" in the garrison towns. [ The translator of the work writes in reference to the year of the union as follows: ] Aam al-Jama'ah the year 40 A.H/A.D 660-661, so called because the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ Muslim Community came together in recognizing Muawiyah, ending the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ political division of the first civil war. Pace Caetani, 648; see Abu Zahrah al-Dimashqi, Tarikh, 188 (no. 101) and 190 (no. 105) Sunni reference: History of al-Tabari, English version, v10, p97 Jalaluddin al-Suyuti mentions this very fact, with the utmost clarity in his work, History of the Caliphs (Tarikhul Khulafa) with the following words: al-Dhahabi says that Ka'ab died before Muawiyah was made caliph, and that Ka'ab was right in what he said, for Muawiyah continued for twenty years, and none of the princess of the earth contended with him, unlike others who came after him, for they had opponents and portions of their dominions passed out of their sway. Muawiyah went forth against Ali as has preceded, and assumed the title of Caliph. Then he marched against al-Hasan, who abdicted in his favor. He therefore became firmly eshtablished in his Caliphate from Rabi'iul Akhir or Jumadal Awwal 41 AH. The year was therefore called the Year ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ of the Union (al-Jama'ah), on account of the gathering of the people ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ under one Caliph. During this year Muawiyah appointed Marwan Ibn al- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hakam over Medina. Sunni refernce: History of the Caliphs, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, English version, p204 (Chapter of Muawiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan) ======================== The Scribe of Revelation ======================== A a pro-Umayad mentioned that: Muawiyah was a scribe of the revelation. Is your character judgement better then that of the Prophet? In the previous parts, I have given the opinion of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) about those who will fight Ahlul-Bayt based of the most authentic Sunni collections of the traditions. According to the opinion of the Prophet, such people were hypocrites and infidels. Muawiyah and his father Abu Sufyan were among those who fought the Prophet till last minutes and when they found that Mecca will be captured shortly and their turn is over, they decided to go under the guise of Islam to save their life and to destroy Islam from inside. This is what Abu Sufyan, his son Muawiyah and his grandson Yazid were trying to achieve every day and night. Now they suddenly became the Scribe of Revelation! Here is the reason behind it: >From the time the Caliphate fell into the hands of the Umayad, they strove to distort the truth and turn everything head over heels. They, thus, elevated to the zenith of power people who were, during the life of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), ordinary, with no special standing, while they ignored others who were at the peak of honor and nobility during the lifetime of the Prophet (PBUH&HF). Their sole criterion in for honor and dishonor, was their intense enmity and excessive hatred for Muhammad (PBUH&HF) and the members of his household, Ali, Fatimah, al-Hasan and al-Husain, peace be upon them. The Umayad elevated the status, and fabricated false traditions, on the merits of every person who opposed the Prophet (PBUH&HF) and his Ahlul-Bayt whom Allah has purified and from whom He removed all abomination in Quran. They sought nearness to those who opposed the Prophet, accorded them high positions and grants so that they enjoyed favors and respect among the populace. They sought to denigrate, fabricate defects, falsify reports that denied the superiority and merits of anyone who used to love the Prophet (PBUH&HF) and would defend him. Thus Umar Ibn al-Khattab, who used to dispute every command of the Prophet of Allah (PBUH&HF), even accusing the latter of hallucination in his last days, became the hero of Islam amongst the Muslims during the time of the Umayad dynasty. On the other hand, Ali Ibn Abi Talib who was, to him, what Aaron was to Moses, and who loved him, and who was loved by Allah and His Prophet, he who was the guardian of every believer, was cursed from the pulpits for eighty years. The effect of false propaganda reached to the point that when the news of assassination of Imam Ali (AS) during the Fajr prayer in Mosque reached to the people of Syria, they were surprised and asked if Ali used to pray! Similarly Aisha, who caused the Prophet of Allah (PBUH&HF) much torment and disobeyed his instructions and the instructions of her Lord, rose against the successor of the Messenger of Allah and caused the worst strife known to the Muslims, a strife which resulted in the death of thousands of Muslims, became the most famous lady in Islam, with religious rulings being accepted from her. But Fatimah al-Zahra, the leader of the women of this world and the world after, she for whom the Lord gets angry if she becomes angry, and she for whom the Lord is happy when she is happy, became a forgotten woman, and was buried in the secrecy of the night, after they had threatened to burn her, and after they forced the door of her house against her stomach, causing her to lose her child. You can hardly find one amongst Sunnis who knows a single Hadith which she reported from her father. This is while their books are replete with the traditions of Aisha simply because she was the only woman who fought Imam Ali (AS). Similarly, Yazid Ibn Muawiyah, Ziyad, the son of his father, Ibn Marjanah, Marwan, al-Hajjaj, Ibn al-Aas, and others from the accursed tree mentioned in Quran, and who were cursed by the tongue of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), they became the commanders of the believers and the guardians of their affairs. As for al-Hasan and al-Husain, the masters of the youths of paradise, the delights of the Prophet of this nation, the Imams from the progeny of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), the custodians of this Ummah, they were banished, imprisoned, murdered, and poisoned. In this way, Abu Sufyan the hypocrite, the leader in every battle that was waged against the Prophet, came to be praised and thanked. As for Abu Talib, the protector and defender of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) with all that he had, who passed his life in hostility with his people and relatives for the sake of his nephew's call, so much so that he spent three years in the enclave with the Prophet in the valley of Mecca, keeping his belief secret, for the benefit of Islam, that some bridges remained still open with the Quraish and so that they would not persecute the Muslims as they wished (he was like the believer from the family of Pharaoh who hid his belief; see Quran 40:28), Abu Talib's alleged reward turns out to be a pair of slippers in the hellfire, his feet placed into it and his brain is popping out from the pain!!! In this way, Mu'awiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan, who was the freed man, son of the freed man, the accursed one, and the son of an accursed one, he who used to play with the injunctions of Allah and His Prophet, not attaching any importance to it, he who used to murder the upright and innocent ones so as to pursue his vile goals and would revile the Prophet of Allah (PBUH&HF) while the Muslims would see and hear, became known as the scribe of revelation!!! They say that Allah entrusted His revelation to Gabriel, Muhammad and Muawiyah. He also came to be described as a man of wisdom, political acumen and reflection. As for Abu Dharr al-Ghifari, the earth did not carry nor the sky did put its shadow on anyone more truthful in speech than him; he was treated as a mischief monger. He was beaten, exiled and banished to Rabdha. Salman, Miqdad, Ammar and Hudaifah and all the sincere companions who took Imam Ali as their leader and followed him, they met with punishment, banishment and murder. Similarly, those who followed the school of the Caliphs, the followers of Muawiyah and the companions of the schools founded by the tyrannical rulers, they turned out to be Ahl al-Sunnah wal-Jama'a and they represented Islam. Whoever opposed them was judged to be a disbeliever. As for those who followed the school of the Ahlul-Bayt and followed the gate to the city of knowledge and the first one to accept Islam, he whom the truth revolved around wherever he was, those who followed the Ahlul- Bayt and the infallible Imams came to be considered as the people of innovation and misguidance, and whoever opposed and fought against them came to be seen as a Muslim. Surely there is no power and no strength except with Allah, the Highest, and the most Powerful. Allah surely spoke the truth when He said: "If it is said to them; 'Make not any mischief on earth', they say: 'We are the righteous ones'. Certainly they are indeed the corrupt ones but they do not realize it. And if it is said to them: 'Believe as other people have believed' they say: 'Shall we believe as the stid ones believe'? They are the stid ones, though they know it not.'" (Quran 2:13) ********************************************************** ************ ============== A Side Comment ============== A brother mentioned that one may kill another with good intention and with love towrd each other and both (the killer and the killed one) would go to Paradise. We have the example of Prophet Abraham (Ibrahim) who recieved commandment to kill his son, Ismail, though it was just a test and Allah wanted to test both of them, and finally they slaughtered a ship by Allah's command. The above incedent is true. However, there is a falacy hiden in the above argument. Abraham (AS) was a prophet and the order (to sacrifice his son) was given by God through revelation. Also he did not FIGHT with Isma'il, nor Ismail FOUGHT back. It was the order of Allah, and both father and son were SUBMESSIVE to that. There was NO dispute between them. But let me ask you this question: Did Talha and Zubair received revelation from God to kill people? Did Quran tell them to fight against their legitimate Caliph? If so, why not against the first three Caliphs? Did Muawiyah and Marwan received revelation of ordering people to curse Imam Ali (AS) and make it a popular habit of people? ... And finally, they slaughtered the whole household of Prophet (PBUH&HF) including his beloved son (grandson) in the same way. Do You believe when somebody is ready to kill the whole house-hold of prophet, he refrains or is afraid of cursing them? LA WALLAH ... - Is cursing Imam Ali a sign of love and good intention? - Is shedding the blood of thousands of innocent Muslims a sign of affection and obedience to Allah? - Is erdicating the houshold of the Prophet a sign of love toward them? Edited by sulooni
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