Information about the tawhid

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

So would you say Allah has always "loved".....

No, before Allah created anything what was there to love. Love needs an object and unlike Humans who can love for no reason at all [not saying all love is like that] Allah loves for a reason he can choose to love and not to love.

As I understand Jehovah... His love is greater than I can understand...just as you have described Allah...

Jehovah and Allah are different names for the same God, similarly to how you would say the God of the christians is the same God as the jews even though you would consider the jewish understand of god, a monothiestic one like ours, to be different than yours.

Men think differently than women for various reasons such as our physical make up [estrogen and testosterone], our upbringing what we like or feel comfertable with [men cars, women family] basically our minds work differently becouse we are different. 

Allah does not think the way men or women do becouse his perspective and view of creation and humans is diferent from ours imagine being consiously aware of trillions upon trillions upon trillions of creatuers all at the same time now imagine being able to see history or time not in a chronological order as we do day after day, month after month, year after year but every day in history, every year in history, decade, centruty, millenium every moment in time all at the same time for all of creation and what is in it. 

from this alone we know we are not dealing with something we can ever attribute any likeness to, our scholars say his creation contains the lightest possible fingerprint of likeness to Allah but that is all. 

He has allowed us to love [among other things] so we know him but our love is not like his love.

He can love a person wholy or something about a person he is in absolute control which is in stark contrast to
how humans love. When we love, for us to increase the strength of that
love or connection we let go of our selfs and what we know and everything about us, we become blind to
the object of our love we stop seeing faults in the person and
everything they touch is magic [as the song says] but the persons faults in
reality are there becouse after all we are human. So if you want to
know how Allah loves understand what love is and take away all forms of
weakness and imperfection from it and you will begin to understand.

I guess where my confusion comes in is this...If Allah is not "Love" in his essence....I mean...If love does not describe him per se....

Love does not describe anything, can you think of a single example?
You can love strongly and place your love for something above certain things which would normaly cause a person not to love but no thing Is love.

But instead love is a "thing" chose to "feel"... here is my question...

IF love is a thing did Allah create it? 

No he did not create it, i used the word thing simply to seperate it from Allahs essance not to imply it is created or has form. 

For humans love has a physical or rather chemical aspect [not saying love is simply a chemical reaction but part of it is] so i suppose that part for us is created but the spiritual aspect in which you are looked on favourably, tolerated more, forgiven more easily, your weaknesses are looked pased, your company is enjoyed and sought after as well as other things that is not created becouse to say it is created is to say allahs knowledge is not complete and it increases. 

He has knowledge of all things, he does not change, he does not increase in anything or decrease in anything.

A man came to the prophet and said: "O Messenger of Allah, direct me to an
act which, if I do it, [will cause] Allah to love me and people to love
me." He said: "Renounce the world and Allah will love you, and renounce what
people possess and people will love you."

If a person can Gain Allahs love then we know from this it is something He decides to give he doesnt fall in love.

here is another example indicating that a person draws near step by step until he reaches a point where allah decides to love him.

Allah the Almighty has said: "Who soever shows enmity to a friend of Mine, I
shall be at war with him. My servant does not draw near to Me with anything
more loved by Me than the religious duties I have imposed upon him, and
My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I
shall love him. When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his
seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes, and his foot
with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely
give it to him and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him
it."

Another good example,

If Allah has loved a servant [of His] He calls Gabriel (on whom be peace) and says: I love So-and-so, therefore love him.  He (the Prophet pbuh) said: So Gabriel loves him.  Then he (Gabriel) calls out in heaven, saying:  Allah loves So-and-so, therefore love him.  And the inhabitants of heaven love him.  He (the Prophet pbuh) said: Then acceptance is established for him on earth.  And if Allah has abhorred a servant [of His], He calls Gabriel and says: I abhor So-and-so, therefore abhor him.  So Gabriel abhors him.  Then Gabriel calls out to the inhabitants of heaven: Allah abhors So-and-so, therefore abhor him.  He (the Prophet pbuh) said: So they abhor him, and abhorrence is established for him on earth.

he finds aceptance with his lord, notice how the angels behave they choose to love who allah loves and choose to adhore whom allah adhores, the rationale may seem cold but it should only indicate absolute control becouse once love is established for someone those beutifull qualities that we know about love are there as well, it is very apparant in the second hadith i quoted above "When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his
seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes, and his foot
with which he walks"

Not many things are described as beutifully as this, the closness between Allah and the one he loves.

If he is beyond comparison or weakness in reference to his creation...would not "feeling" be a weakness? 

No becouse you automatically associate feeling with weakness and moral coruption i.e a person will do anything for there loved ones even kill for example. People display self control to differing degrees some people will not kill or steal or do anything illegal but others would. Imagine "feeling" without need as need for that feeling and lack of control will drive you to certain things, so not being in need removes the element of weakness.

Ontological love would be eternal love and therefore outside the realm of "feeling" because it is literally who Allah is....

Since love needs an object [humans] and that object is not eternal but created how can Ontological love exist. once the object was created then you can choose to love it otherwise who is eternally being loved?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/love

notice how in all these examples there is an object being loved.

if that doesnt make sence you may have to clarify what you mean by ontological love its a new term to me.

Because if I understand Tawhid correctly...perhaps I do not... Then how could Allah who is absolutely "one" take upon himself any "thing" or attribute that is not eternally who he is?

love is not a thing but is more in line with being an action. Also what do you mean by take upon himself, Allah also takes many other actions creation itself was an action he decided to do see my example above of allah "deciding" to love someone when at one point in time he didnt love them.

To often evangelicals make assumptions regarding Muslims that are not true!

that's why there called evangelicans becouse they are evangelical 

You will have to excuse Poga he is eccentric to say the least.