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God�s commands
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2008 at 12:35pm
Robin,
you bring a another quote that enforces my point that unjust acts cannot be from God, and must be man's inventions. "All its people found in it should become your for forced labor, and they must serve you"
Isn't that what Egyptians did to Israelis. Wouldn't God's justice and standards be better than Pheroah's.
I do not beleive that God will order the killing of innocent civilians, crops and animals. That is barbaric, and must come from barbaric minds of some humans and not God.
Just read them again and yo uwill see:
Joshua 6:.. and they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, ox and sheep and donkey, with the edge of the sword.
I happen to find another of such quotes, this one refers to Moses commanding:
Exodus 32:27 Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' " 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. 29 Then Moses said, "You have been set apart to the LORD today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day."
 
Hasan
 


Edited by honeto - 26 May 2008 at 12:37pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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robin View Drop Down
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Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Robin,
you bring a another quote that enforces my point that unjust acts cannot be from God, and must be man's inventions. "All its people found in it should become your for forced labor, and they must serve you"
Isn't that what Egyptians did to Israelis. Wouldn't God's justice and standards be better than Pheroah's.
I do not beleive that God will order the killing of innocent civilians, crops and animals. That is barbaric, and must come from barbaric minds of some humans and not God.
Just read them again and yo uwill see:
Joshua 6:.. and they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, ox and sheep and donkey, with the edge of the sword.
I happen to find another of such quotes, this one refers to Moses commanding:
Exodus 32:27 Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' " 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. 29 Then Moses said, "You have been set apart to the LORD today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day."
 
Hasan
 
 

Hasan you seem to forget that these Canaanite peoples where satanic demon* worshipers that God had cursed via Noah (see below) and hated as the sacrificed their children by fire to their demonic gods and practiced the most filthy sexual religious praticess total against what God had said that humans can and should do!

 
*1 Corinthians 10:20
the things which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God. . .
 
*Deuteronomy 32:17
They went sacrificing to demons, not to God,
 
God as the giver of Life has the right to say what can and cannot be done with it wither humans agree or not with Him!

 

If humans use their life in a way that God disapproves of and at the same time inflict unjust pain and suffering on others God has the right to take that Life back from them as they are opposed to all he stands for; thus he will do in Armageddon in that he will destroy all that do not do as he says and refuse to acknowledge his universal Sovereignty and wish to stay serving Satan The Devil knowingly or unknowingly, just like the ancient Canaanites, along with all the filthy things they do!!

 

This is the point made by the battles in the Bible; God will not put up with the wicked indefinitely he will act as He has done in the past against all things Satanic and those who pose a threat to his people and stand in oppersion to Him!

 
EXAMPLE:-

Why was Abraham so insistent that his son should not marry a Canaanite?

Because the Canaanites were descendants of Canaan, who was cursed by Noah:-

 

Genesis 9:24-25

Finally Noah awoke from his wine and got to know what his youngest son had done to him. 25 At this he said: �Cursed be Canaan. Let him become the lowest slave to his brothers.�

 
 
Thus God�s will is done and warns us today he will act against such like ones soon wither Humans agree or not, as Moses said of God:-

 

Deuteronomy 32:4

The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; Righteous and upright is he.

 

Do You Not Believe Moses?



Edited by robin - 27 May 2008 at 1:11am
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2008 at 4:47pm
Robin,
I understand your point that God does punish those who do things opposite to what God asks of them, in this life and the next. I know that God has appointed a day when He will Judge between people and serve Justice, punish and reward accordingly.
What I have problem with is not that but the indiscriminate and collective punishment of everyone on the other side, even children, livestock, property, and crop fields. I am sorry, but I cannot accept that such commands come from a Just God, who in my belief does not teach us to punish innocent people, children, babies and does not teach collective punishment or destruction of livestock, property, and crops.
 
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 27 May 2008 at 4:48pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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robin View Drop Down
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Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Robin,
I understand your point that God does punish those who do things opposite to what God asks of them, in this life and the next. I know that God has appointed a day when He will Judge between people and serve Justice, punish and reward accordingly.
What I have problem with is not that but the indiscriminate and collective punishment of everyone on the other side, even children, livestock, property, and crop fields. I am sorry, but I cannot accept that such commands come from a Just God, who in my belief does not teach us to punish innocent people, children, babies and does not teach collective punishment or destruction of livestock, property, and crops.
 
Hasan
 
With Jericho they knew what was coming, had six days to surrender but did not do knowing what was going to happen:-
 
Joshua 2:9-11
And she went on to say to the men: "I do know that Jehovah will certainly give YOU the land, and that the fright of YOU has fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land have become disheartened because of YOU. 10 For we have heard how Jehovah dried up the waters of the Red Sea from before YOU when YOU came out of Egypt, and what YOU did to the two kings of the Am�or�ites who were on the other side of the Jordan, namely, Si�hon and Og, whom YOU devoted to destruction. 11 When we got to hear it, then our hearts began to melt, and no spirit has arisen yet in anybody because of YOU, for Jehovah YOUR God is God in the heavens above and on the earth beneath.
 
 
Joshua 2:12-13
And now, please, swear to me [Rahab] by Jehovah that, because I have exercised loving-kindness toward YOU, YOU also will certainly exercise loving-kindness toward the household of my father, and YOU must give me a trustworthy sign. 13 And YOU must preserve alive my father and my mother and my brothers and my sisters and all who belong to them, and YOU must deliver our souls from death."
 
 
"Rahab" surrendered and survived:-
 
Joshua 6:25
And Ra�hab the prostitute and the household of her father and all who belonged to her, Joshua preserved alive; and she dwells in the midst of Israel down to this day, because she hid the messengers whom Joshua sent out to spy on Jer�i�cho.
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2008 at 6:33pm
Robin,
either you did not read or understand what I mean and let me rewrite this:
What I have problem with is not what you  are addressing here but the indiscriminate and collective punishment of everyone on the other side, even children, livestock, property, and crop fields. I am sorry, but I cannot accept that such commands come from a Just God, who in my belief does not teach us to punish innocent people, children, babies and does not teach collective punishment or destruction of livestock, property, and crops.
Can you address this?
As a Muslim, I believe that God is Just, and does not order indiscriminate killing. In fact God has taught us through the Quran that one who kills a person unjustly is as if he has killed the whole humanity. Life is sacred, innocent people, children, crops, property and animals are not to be destroyed even in wars.
I get a very different picture when I see indescriminate killings and orders of killing in such a way by God to his prophets in the Bible??
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 28 May 2008 at 6:35pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Robin,
either you did not read or understand what I mean and let me rewrite this:
What I have problem with is not what you  are addressing here but the indiscriminate and collective punishment of everyone on the other side, even children, livestock, property, and crop fields. I am sorry, but I cannot accept that such commands come from a Just God, who in my belief does not teach us to punish innocent people, children, babies and does not teach collective punishment or destruction of livestock, property, and crops.
Can you address this?
As a Muslim, I believe that God is Just, and does not order indiscriminate killing. In fact God has taught us through the Quran that one who kills a person unjustly is as if he has killed the whole humanity. Life is sacred, innocent people, children, crops, property and animals are not to be destroyed even in wars.
I get a very different picture when I see indescriminate killings and orders of killing in such a way by God to his prophets in the Bible??
Hasan
 
He does as a warning for us, and it is this (in the following ALL died!:-
 
1 Corinthians 10:6-11
Now these things became our examples, for us not to be persons desiring injurious things, even as they desired them. 7 Neither become idolaters, as some of them did; just as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink, and they got up to have a good time." 8 Neither let us practice fornication, as some of them committed fornication, only to fall, twenty-three thousand [of them] in one day. 9 Neither let us put Jehovah to the test, as some of them put [him] to the test, only to perish by the serpents. 10 Neither be murmurers, just as some of them murmured, only to perish by the destroyer. 11 Now these things went on befalling them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have arrived.
 
Hebrews 11:7
By faith Noah, after being given divine warning of things not yet beheld, showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; and through this [faith] he condemned the world, and he became an heir of the righteousness that is according to faith.
 
Jude 7
So too Sod�om and Go�mor�rah and the cities about them, after they in the same manner as the foregoing ones had committed fornication excessively and gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before [us] as a [warning] example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.
 
ALL humans must heed the warnings from God or we will die along with thier children (as they are responsible for them by God's word) as in the Global flood, non survived, only Noah and his family as they obeyed God, to disobay God will bring death to all!
 
Who will be God's executioner; JESUS CHRIST:-
 
Revelation 19:11-16
And I saw the heaven opened, and, look! a white horse. And the one seated upon it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. 12 His eyes are a fiery flame, and upon his head are many diadems. He has a name written that no one knows but he himself, 13 and he is arrayed with an outer garment sprinkled with blood, and the name he is called is The Word of God. [see John 1:1-18]  14 Also, the armies that were in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen. 15 And out of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword, that he may strike the nations with it, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron. He treads too the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 And upon his outer garment, even upon his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.
 
and
 
2 Thessalonians 1:6-10
This takes into account that it is righteous on God�s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for YOU, 7 but, to YOU who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder in connection with all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among YOU.
 
 
This must prove to be true as God has said it:-
 
Micah 4:5
For all the peoples, for their part, will walk each one in the name of its god; but we, for our part, shall walk in the name of Jehovah our God to time indefinite, even forever.
 
Thus putting an end to the Devil's rule!
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honeto View Drop Down
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Robin,
I am talking about indiscriminate killings of women, children, livestock and cropfield destruction quoted to have been ordered by God in the Bible, as proved in the quotes I have mentioned. And you are answering/talking something else.
Can you go back, lok at those quotes that I have posted and just elaborate on these quotes please, rather others.
Hasan
 


Edited by honeto - 03 June 2008 at 4:38pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Robin,
I am talking about indiscriminate killings of women, children, livestock and cropfield destruction quoted to have been ordered by God in the Bible, as proved in the quotes I have mentioned. And you are answering/talking something else.
Can you go back, lok at those quotes that I have posted and just elaborate on these quotes please, rather others.
Hasan
 
 
If it is ordered by God it is not "indiscriminate" it is a delibrate act of divine judgment against what he consider wicked!
 
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