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A muslimah in frustration |
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Chrysalis 
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Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033 |
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 Posted: 08 July 2008 at 1:42am |
Though what you say is true Nausheen, that one cannot change opinions on issues. I believe many like me, do not post just so they can change the other's opinion. . .
Speaking for myself, I knw that when I put forward the opposite view or any knowledge, especially on a public forum such as this one, or you-tube for e.g it also educates others who happen to chance upon it. For e.g a muslim that is ignorant of Islamic injunctions, or a non-muslim that thinks Islam is a dark religion. Many a times I'm sure there are muslims out there on the brink, who have been let down by the culture-tainted version of Islam, and may be pushed on either side of the line of Islam. . . Thus I knw that atleast I did my job by putting the view I believe is the Islamic-based one. And thus I cease to post replies on threads that I believe are turning into a 'debate' rather than discussion . . .
PS: I know this was meant at Shasta's Aunt, but I can relate to her wanting to strive to put the info based on islamic sources out there. Which is why I added my own 2 cents.
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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Shasta'sAunt
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Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
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Posted: 08 July 2008 at 3:59pm |
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Sister Nausheen:
There were links posted to some fatwas which stated that women were inferior in their mental abilities. That is why I have responded so fervently.
I have never thought that women who work outside the home are superior to women who work inside. They are all working extremely hard and choosing what they believe is important. I object 100% to any "sheik" or "scholar" stating there is no doubt in Islam that men are mentally superior to women. THere are no Islamic grounds for such a statement and even though I have asked repeatedly for one Ayat that negates those I have posted showing our equal nature, not identical, equal, none have been forthcoming.
I know that there are Muslims who will still hold these views as truth even without daleel of any sort, but I hope that anyone who comes here to learn will take into account the actual Words of Allah, not our personal opinions.
I wrote this on another thread which was about the same general issue, but I think it is appropo here:
I have read so many articles trying to explain that Islam does not oppress women, Islam was the first religion to give women their rights, etc... yet the very fact that these articles have to be written to try to convince people this is so means that something is very wrong. If the Ummah were truly treating women the way Allah intended and giving women all of their rights there would be no need for such articles and assurances because it would be a nonissue, it would just be a fact of life. |
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
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seekshidayath
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Female Islam Joined: 26 March 2006 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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Posted: 08 July 2008 at 7:07pm |
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As'Salamu Alaikum,
Hope sisters, you shall excuse me for sometime. I need some time to concentrate and read your posts well to reply you all. Insha Allah, i shall surely post mine.
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Nausheen
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Posted: 08 July 2008 at 8:14pm |
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Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,
Bismillah ir Rahman ir Rahim
Chrysalis,
My post was not directed to anyone in particular. To me the most needy person is myself, all muslims being better, because I know my follies.
SA is a revert, and reverts to me are like my 10 year old who is so new to Islam. Yet, I have read SA on many occasions where she has posed arguments better than anyone on these boards - so please let me not judge.
I know that people can be "informed" on forums. But I also know that when we argue people usually switch off their "understanding" faculties, and switch on their "refuting" faculties. So the best thing is to allow them room for their own study. SH had been trying to give some pragmatic advice, but it will only be received by any of you when you have done your own study on the matter.
As for the debate of men and women and their equality in Islam. What is the meaning of equality, I ask all of you?
Islam says a man is protector and provider of his women folk - and it nowhere places the burden of being a provider on the woman - is this inequality?
If you open any book on islamic rights and duties in a marriage, there is a small section on woman's duties, and an endlessly long section on her rights. Is this inequality?
The door to anyone's jannah is from his/her mother's feet, not the father's feet. Is this inequality?
A woman gets the thawab of hajj when she wakes up one time to tend to her baby. Can anyone show me any hadith where a father gets the same thawab? Is this inequality?
Yet, all of this looks like a woman is being preferred.
And there can be several other examples where you will find men are being preferred.
In reality neither one is being preferred over the other due to any gender bias.
Men and women, arab and non arab are all equal in term of human rights. And they are all equal with respect to righteousness. If a man prays tahajjud his prayer is no better than a woman who gets up to pray, except when the circumstances of the two are different, and their devotion is different.
So islam has marked roles for each in a society. Islam also demands different types of "birr" from each. Because islam does recognise them as different. If "different" translates as "unequal" it is a problem of comprehension, nothing more.
Just a small side note: I have long decided not to read on islamonline.net or islamqa .... I found some things seriously contradictory to what I alrady know and my way of learning is that if I find some flaw in a website I dont rely on it primarily. I am not saying the shaykh there don't have knowledge, just that I might run into problems understanding things if I were to spend time there.
Best places to read is a good book. After that, one may research a website and read only when the heart is settled to what they are relaying. So no comment on the links.
SA, I agree with all that you directed to me in the above post.
I am not sure how one can say women are inferior in intellect.
The only thing I know scientifically is that a bigger brain is considered as better in mental ability. On "an average" - and not in exceptional cases - a baby boy's brain weighs more than a baby girls.
The brains of men and women work differently, so the execution of tasks is different depending on gender. Men are better with precision, and women are better in executing multiple tasks at the same time. I don't know if that can spell superiority of one over another - did not read any such thing so far.
There is an incident in quran where it is stated that two female witnesses are required as opposed to one male - this is explained by scholars as a wisdom because women tend to forget facts more quickly than men. Some people might read that as lesser mental ability - wallahu alam.
I read that the power to forget is a blessing from Allah, because if we were not able to do that life would have been very miserable since we would be carrying all the baggage of bad experiences into the rest of our lives.
In the same vein, it was said that the word for womb is rahm which comes from the rood word rahma or mercy. It is the woman who carries the womb, and Allah has placed in a woman a greater ability to have mercy - she is softer, more compassionate and kinder. This difference is agian not an inequality, rather out of a wisdom, because men and women have different roles and responsibilities in society.
Mercy and compassion cannot develop if one were to keep grudges. A woman is more compassionate because her ability to forget is better than of a man - in other words it is easier for her to let go of grudges than men.
Having a finer ability to forget bad experiences does not mean this human brain is less eqquipped to retain important details which it forces to retain.
Another subject I wished to touch - was mentioned by others.
If you think men and women are same in their sensualities you are again wrong. It is a scientifically proven fact that a man's bloodstream carreis 5-20% more testosterone than a woman's. This brings about many behavorial differences between the two.
A situation which is more likely to make a man slip, a woman might not even notice it. A row of magazines on a stand with "less appropriate" pictures are "more likely" to arouse a man's feelings than a woman's.
Same element is never a source of same level of temptation for the two genders - and I wont debate this, rather leave if for you either to disagree or research.
If Islam allows women to go out, it does not mean it is preferable for them to go out rather than stay indoors.
Since Islam is very rational, it does not pose absolutes on us, instead leaves many areas for flexibility depending on situations. Look at marriage - it is said that one who marries has completed 50% of his deen, and marriage is highly recommended. However, it is still not a fard, but remains a sunnah. Why?
The answer is obvious, not everyone may have the wherewithal to marry ... thus it remains a sunnah - a highly recommended sunnah.
In the same way, the religion was not designed to confine women in their homes, they are allowed to go out and seek their needs - yet the better for them is that they stay at homes. In one of the duties of a husband is that when he leaves his home he should take care so far that he makes sure she has the material to wash her hair ... whatever it used to be in olden times.
Women are not fitna, but they are more likely to become a cause of fitna. Confining them is not an opression, rather a means of protection. If we want to see this in a positive light the insinuations are plenty. Yet if we want to get sensitive about the matter, our miseries will likewise be plenty.
Even here in Japan which is such a safe society that in general there is no danger for a girl walking on a lonely street in the middle of the night, yet we do here cases of molestation in this country. We do hear advices from wise people to not do "foolish" things.
If we look at the whole thing its a matter of rationale, and not oppression, rights, daleel etc etc ...
Edited by Nausheen - 08 July 2008 at 8:38pm |
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<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
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Shasta'sAunt
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Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
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Posted: 09 July 2008 at 12:46am |
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Assalamu Alaikum:
Yes, I am a revert of eleven plus years. I studied Islam for perhaps ten years before I reverted. I have found that many reverts are extremely knowledgeable about Islam because they do tend to study before and after reverting. They are not subject to the cultural baggage that people born into Islam seem to have, nor do they do things a certain way simply because that's what their family has always done.
Look at the emerging scholars today: Humsa Yusuf, Siraj Wahhaj, Yusuf Islam, Abdal Hakim Murad, they are reverts. Jeffrey Lang and Karen Armstrong have become very well known for their writings on Islam and Muslims in the west. Both reverts.
Reverting to Islam gives you an opportunity to learn about Islam without all of the external influences often found within established Muslim families and societies. You are not burdened by the perspective of generations of culture and familial pressure, and unthinking obedience.
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Hayfa
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Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368 |
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Posted: 09 July 2008 at 3:45am |
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Salaams Shasta's Aunt" Did Karen Armstrong revert??
And you cna add Iman Zaid Shakir to that list as well .. 
If bigger brain's indicated more intelligence then elephants and whales would be ahead of all of us.. lol |
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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Chrysalis
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Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033 |
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Posted: 09 July 2008 at 8:44am |
And Yusuf Estes, Abdur Rahim Green . . .
Also, with regards to brain sizes and intelligence. An African Grey Parrot has a walnut sized brain, if not smaller - yet it has the same cognitive capabilities of a human toddler. . . with a bigger brain.
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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Ron Webb
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Male atheist Joined: 30 January 2008 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2467 |
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Posted: 09 July 2008 at 4:17pm |
"Revert" suggests to me someone who was once a Muslim, left the religion and then returned. Do you mean "convert"?
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Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Nausheen wrote: