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Whisper 
Senior Member
Male
Joined: 25 July 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4752
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 Posted: 27 September 2008 at 11:21am |
Plz and be respectful, u are surly not creating a good image of urself. im sure ur grandpa must have taught u some respect other than that story. Would I care a hoot about my image with you when I fail to respect any bit of you? You are juggling the issue. I have asked you just this instance; who are you? What credentials do you have of barking your assertions at us like this? Are you some scholar of any standing?
You seem to conduct yourself as a lay about, some immature juvenile delinquent with utter disrespect for anything.
My grandfather never told me any stories. He died long before I was born. I have read this event in a History book when Abul Asar Hafeez Jalundhary pointed it out to me. Chore de puttar Jallendhary saa'b ko jantay ho? (Do you know Jallundhary?)
It is not one of his sayings or anything like that. Shall I make you understand in Punjaubi? Your nabi failed to show up. In fact he ran away (like you had done just a few weeks ago) when he was challenged to a Munazara on his claims.
Do you understand what that means? I bet you do but you are just a juggler with this issue in your hands. It seems you have never been good at other real games. You need psychological assistance with your distorted mentality.
Edited by Whisper - 27 September 2008 at 11:50am
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Whisper
Senior Member
Male
Joined: 25 July 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4752
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Posted: 27 September 2008 at 11:54am |
My mistake and apology to whisper.
Yaar Minuteman just forget about all these bookish things. We all know you are a great scholar. You don't have to impress that upon us at all.
Just please bring us the Proof of this chap's prophethood. In your and this H(arami)300's game all of us have a fair chance of becoming Nabis if only your and his certification is the only requirement!
Edited by Whisper - 27 September 2008 at 11:56am
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Whisper
Senior Member
Male
Joined: 25 July 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4752
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Posted: 27 September 2008 at 12:19pm |
I was asking about his grand in good faith. But he did not trust me.
Bradre'em it's has nothing to do with trust. Just with a bit of modesty, perhaps. When we are surrounded by the likes of this chap, here, it does become quite difficult to talk about any type of decent things. He seems to have had some broken down second hand type of elders and such chaps always think that the whole world has elders just like their own!
My grand father was the direct descendant of Memrez Salik Naqshband who gave up Ahmed Shah Abdaal's Governorship and packed in his sword and started a tehereek in 1749. Today, masha Allah, our Trust runs 30 schools and a 500 acres university is now being completed in Sargodha, for the four million or so Khaliqis.
Edited by Whisper - 27 September 2008 at 12:27pm
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Whisper
Senior Member
Male
Joined: 25 July 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4752
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Posted: 27 September 2008 at 12:32pm |
is he a prophet of God or is it somewhere mentioned in quran that whenever ur grand pa says something just accept it with any question.
No. Only what you say we should accept with our heads bowed!
Who are you? Some prophet? What makes you a prophet promoter? Just a juvenile chore da puttar, juggler, immature chap in need of serious psychological assistance.
Bring proof and only then bark your assertions at us.
I feel you are totally Punjaubi medium. You don't understand plain simple English. Let me spell it out in Panjaubi:
Apnay Nabi di nabawat da saboot lay ke aa tay pher saday naal gal kar.
Edited by Whisper - 27 September 2008 at 12:37pm
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H3OO
Senior Member
Joined: 11 July 2008
Location: Switzerland
Status: Offline
Points: 215
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Posted: 27 September 2008 at 12:58pm |
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the post of seekshidayath in which he gives some reference of Illias Sattar is taken from an anti-ahmedi site so we are not going to expect a objective unbiased opinion from there.
Thats why ive been repeating it time and time again that dont accept anything from here or there or u will only get mislead. There are lots of devils in this world.
Try to find out ur self by studying there(AHMEDIS) books and the interpretations of their khalifas.
This also proves that there is no one here who have studied any of their
books and are just giving references from non ahmedi sites and infact most of todays muslims who are anti-ahmedi are those who have got knowledge about them through nonauthentic sources by which i mean
is that what they hear on these different websites, what they hear from their elder or scholars or what they hear from there friends or stories they hear from here and there like the one Whisper is stating and they fall for it.
No one has done an extensive study/research themselves by reading the orginal books of ahmedis, (books of their prophets and khalifas) and ofocurse the end result will only be one that we can see in this
thread.
So plz before forming any conclusion, atleast study their books but
if u cant than dont atleast blindly accept what these people around say bcz they are neither the prophets of God and neither their words are the words of quran.
If u cant read their books urself, then u are not in any position to form an objective, unbiased conclusion, which then makes the best option, the most sensible one is Just to respect them for their believes and follow ur own religion. Im sure God will be happy with all of us.
Thanks
Edited by H3OO - 27 September 2008 at 1:03pm
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Whisper
Senior Member
Male
Joined: 25 July 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4752
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Posted: 27 September 2008 at 1:48pm |
(books of their prophets and khalifas)
My beautiful juggler Morshed-in-Chief, I requested you to be just a bit careful here, but do you ever listen? I had told you, not to appoint any Prophets unless you had obtained manufacturing details and full certification of their prophet hoods.
And, by just riding rough shod and shouting at these chaps you continue to establish your self as a mere thug and a juggler. You need to understand that these people out here are pretty cool with their own hundreds of thousands of certified Class �A� Nabis. What makes you feel that are so short on this count that they will take your plastic fake to their hearts?
I have read Mirza saa'b.
Almost at a time that you seem to be facing now. She also had a triangular burqa and perhaps the most penetrating eyes! Is your m�shooq also from Gujranwala? Or have you tied up with someone from Daska? The Daskavi ones are far better and their padres seem to have more acreage.
I will also suggest another priceless thing to you.
Get on to Google Earth and chart the route Hazrat Issa aleh e Islam took to Kashmir. (Just between you and I, is it possible that Mirza just made it up to shoon shaa�n the importance of where the Mirzas come from?)
Anyway, just be a bit careful because I haven�t had a Morshed for a very long time and I don�t wish to waste you here and right in front of my very own eyes. Aap tay maren ga naal ee sanoo vi murwai�n ga! (You will be killed but seems you will also get us killed with you) - actually an old Punjaubi saying, mostly, used as pun for someone�s utter empty head.
Morshed, I have asked you a few times but you seem to go deaf whenever I pose the question: why do Ahmadis take the rest of the world as Non-Muslims?
Edited by Whisper - 28 September 2008 at 4:26am
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Sign*Reader
Senior Member
Joined: 02 November 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3352
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Posted: 28 September 2008 at 1:09am |
 H3OO wrote:
matters.
SR
Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
Here is ahmedis interpretation OF seal of prophets, Khataman Nabiyyeen.
You started this thread with SR initials boy you have lot of nerve: I assure you will get the run for your money!
Why are you acting as a Ahmedi attorney if you are not one?
They say Khatam is derived from the word Khatama which means sealed, stamped, impressed or imprinting the thing. This is the primary signification the this word. the secondary meaning is he reached the end of the thing, or covered the thing or protected what is in writhing by marking or stamping a piece of clay uopn it or by means of seal of any kind.
Khatam means a stamp, a seal or a mark.
(the purpose of a seal is not to close a statement 
but to certify it as correct. That is why often a seal is affixed to a document at its top and in other cases it is affixed at its bottom or at its end. Its purpose is to certify the genuineness and correctness of the contents of the document.)
Do you understand what are you blithering about?
Even if it is at all possible how do you get a certified document with a Muhammad's approval?
Why the flipping heck do we need a secondary meaning?
Why it is that two false prophets being non Arab and both were Mirzas,One who created Bahai religion and then your Mirza!
What is with these doggone Mirzas? Can't they live without being opportunists? In case of former there still existed the Caliphate the later basically helped the antagonists to end and not let it come back cuz Jihad is over!
Something wrong in their gene pool that they can't help but being such delusional!
The word also signifies embellishment and ornament ; the best and most perfect.
The words Khatim and khatm and khatam are almost synonymous.
So the expression Khatam would mean the seal of prophets, the best and the most perfect of the prophets, the embellishment and ornament of the prophets. secondarily it means the last of the prophets
Briefly according to meaning of Khatam given above, one can have 3 possible meanings.
These are your assumptions!!!
1.No prophet and his message can be regarded as true unless his prophethood bears the the seal of Holy prophet [pbuh]
What is the MO for that? How do you get the paperwork signed sealed and delivered from the Prophet again and again?
2.The Holy prophet was the best, noblest and the most perfect of all the prophets and he was also a source of embellishment for them
OK who is them explain yourself?
3.The holy prophet was the last of the law bearing prophets
STOP==He said in the last sermon-no prophet after him. law or no law!
Nice try
From the above interpretation of theirs, can u plz tell me how it
in any way effect the status of prophet (pbuh) or in any way disrespects him.
Now you settle down and listen you talk about disrespect>>> Mirza's attachment with the colonial rulers and his followers after (he died in the toilet a fact ) sold their souls for few pieces of silver to continue their sycophancy to the Anglo masters even after they got out out of the subcontinent!
They assisted the Brits in the dismantlement of the Caliphate and declaring the Jihad was unnecessary! They tried to take the control of a fist newly independent so called Pakistan when the colonials left .
Then there were riots in the country in early fifties to get rid some of the obvious tentacles of the imperial control through the Ahmedis and other minority over the 80% majority of regular muslims. Then the country went to dogs split up into two but the troubles are not over by any means. I was an eye witness to the riots I am talking about I don't want to go into the details! How the army shot the common people to death in their own neighborhoods! And that horrible practice gave rise to the currency of dictatorships.
what i can say is that this interpretation further higher/raises his status, greatness than merely using the word Last.
It is Allah who has done that with a instructions to the Muslims to send salamm on him constantly? There is no need of this bogus interpretation!
I ask u, how can above be any threat to islam or damaging to prophet(pbuh).
Threat to Islam is obvious that the minorties are ruling with the wink and nod of the old colonial and the neocolonial power the US! There is not a single independently functioning regular Muslim state in the ME or in the neghborhood!
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Edited by Sign*Reader - 28 September 2008 at 1:31am
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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Sign*Reader
Senior Member
Joined: 02 November 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3352
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Posted: 28 September 2008 at 2:09am |
H3OO wrote:
it is only their interpretation of the word seal of prophets/ Khataman Nabiyyeen that is different
So what crime is it if any faith differently interprets it.
is their any compulsion on them in interpreting the way they feel is true.
Then they become a different religion that is all mi suizo!
it definitely seems that we are putting some compulsion on them that they should only interpret the way we do and not use their own mind or they'll be hated. isnt it sir.
Not exactly!Who are we to do that? As they were given a long leash by their benefactors the colonial powers in their hey days, the poor people of the land just yanked that leash after a time the colonials went back to their Island!
They are free to interpret and use their minds as long as they hang around their masters! not here on IC either!
we see so many scholars wrongly interpreting islamic teachings that is causing great harm to islam but remain silent there but when an ahmedi group differently interpret something for which they also give some reasoning it still becomes such a big crime (even though there interpretation is in no way effecting islam in a negative way or badmouthing prophet [sa] or abusing quran)
It depends on the law of the land as said above!
Quran is a book of God but he has left it on us to understand it, interpret it and so if they want to understand it the they feel is true, what is wrong with that.
Nothing is wrong only when you cross the limit set by the recepient!
Remember what Elijah Muhammad(NOI) did when nobody was looking!
That is what Mirza did when nobody was looking with one exception Elijah labelled the whiteman as devil but Mirza took the whiteman as the co savior!
This heavy stuff amigo may be too much for you!
His followers got the English education and the front seat in the colonial administration while the rest of the people rotted under the bondage akin to the Uncle Toms with a brand new Islam! WOW
in the end its God who will decide whose interpretation is right or wrong.
Of course but The Prophet(s) said he is leaving two things Quraan and his Sunnah you follow that instead of your own interpretations then you will not go estray!
we just need to learn to listen to each others point view, accept the one we feel is right and move on.
It is time for you to hit the road and stop at the stop sign and follow the speed limit! I mean Quraan in the light of Sunnah!
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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Seal of prophet-KhatamanNabiyyeenand othe