Moon Sighting

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   Assalaamu Alaikum

I first and foremost want to say this is a great site and happy to be a contributing lifetime member, however this is my first time on the forums.  

What are the thoughts here on the abandonment of actual physical witnessing of the crescent moon for the beginning and end of each Islamic month?  Is this an antiquated process that is no longer needed?  Do the organization like the Fiqh Council of North America and the European Council for Fatwa and Research actually represent us?  Did we elect them or endorse them to become to the positions they hold. 

After viewing websites like www.moonsighting.com, www.islamicmoon.com, www.crescentwatch.org do you feel better informed about a need to observe the moon?

Ma�a salaama

Usaamah

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
mdeevey Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 29 August 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote mdeevey Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Moon Sighting Posted: 29 August 2008 at 4:52am
	Assalaamu Alaikum I first and foremost want to say this is a great site and happy to be a contributing lifetime member, however this is my first time on the forums. What are the thoughts here on the abandonment of actual physical witnessing of the crescent moon for the beginning and end of each Islamic month? Is this an antiquated process that is no longer needed? Do the organization like the Fiqh Council of North America and the European Council for Fatwa and Research actually represent us? Did we elect them or endorse them to become to the positions they hold. After viewing websites like www.moonsighting.com, www.islamicmoon.com, www.crescentwatch.org do you feel better informed about a need to observe the moon? Ma�a salaama Usaamah

minuteman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642	Post Options Post Reply Quote minuteman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 September 2008 at 1:17am
	There is no need to sight the moon everytime. But the problem arises with some Hadith (saying) of the holy prophet s.a.w.s. which seemed to say "Start your fast with the sighting of the new moon and end your month of fasting with the sighting of the new moon." People give much importance to that Hadith. So they do not agree to any precalculated lunar calendar. Even though, it is in practice in Egypt. They announce the lunar calendar for the whole year in advance. In S. Arabia also, the moon is sighted mostly in the morning and not in the evening. Then they have a system of estimating the new moon. It is also said that the King of S. Arabia is the master of the calendar. He can decide the matter as he likes. I had a strange personal experience as I arrived in Madinah from makkah near end of Ramadhan. Eid ul Fitr was suddenly announced after midnight. I feel that as we make use of every new facility of science for travel and communication and food and business, it should be possible to have the moon data announced in advance. Muslims were top class astronomers. The problem is that now most of the muslim masses are poor and illiterate. They also do not have any spiritual leadership. They are divided into many sections. If one section will agree to the calculated moon, the other sect will oppose it. And it is a religious matter. No one wants to hurt the feelings of the muslim brothers/ sisters. It is not always possible to sight the moon due to clouds. Then there are committees sitting on sighting of the moon. They use the binocular and telephone system to take reports from different areas. Why they use all such modern instruments? They should not use them too. I have tried to present the picture from both sides. My own opinion is that the new moon should be predicted by means of the almanac and computer programs. Edited by minuteman - 02 September 2008 at 1:21am

earth Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 09 October 2008 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 6	Post Options Post Reply Quote earth Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 October 2008 at 6:52am
	Yes, I am totally agreed with you. I am involve in astronomy, I know when new moon can b seen anywhere in the world. I have that software and they are very accurate. you Can calculate accurate time rise and set too, even how they looks today. Now software is so much advanced, you can install on PDA phone too. I use my PDA to see stars planets and moon. why we muslims are using old method to know about the moon face? It is totally st**id idea to use such way. I wanted to write about it long time ago, I argued with someone but they don�t believe it. I saw many countries are doing Eid in next day due to moon visiblity. Edited by earth - 09 October 2008 at 4:44pm

mdeevey Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 29 August 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3	Post Options Post Reply Quote mdeevey Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 October 2008 at 2:54pm
	salaam, I agree that there is some pretty advanced software that gives probability curves where the crescent can be seen but it is not advanced enough to predict here the moon will be seen. Environmental conditions come in to play that cannot be accounted for in static software. We can use the software to concentrate our collective efforts to seeing the moon though. Egypt�s pre-calculated lunar calendar is a prime example of the lack of the relevance of the sunnah in the ummah�s hearts. The Quranic verse on inshallah is not a matter to overlook. Telling people Eid WILL be on such and such a date negates the complexities that Allah can given to this world. I might conjecture that Allah made moon sighting a little hard so people go out and look � connect with nature. Having set dates is economically valuable to plan in advance but since money is Allah�s what are we saving really when we might be held accountable for fasting, hajj dates that are not accounting t legitimate moon sightings. If we could make pigs totally pure and clean could we then eat them? If alcohol didn�t make us drunk should we then drink it? There are rules that we have to follow regardless of how advanced we come as a civilization. The muslim astronomers of old used their observatories to sight to moon based on their calculations not negating a physical sighting. Technology should be used to make us more observant not to replace Islamic rulings. salaam

earth Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 09 October 2008 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 6	Post Options Post Reply Quote earth Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 October 2008 at 8:13pm
	Thanks for answer. I don't know what make sense of moon visibility. If the moon have to be visible then it is totally different. If the sky is very cloudy then we have to wait for next day? I am bit confused.

minuteman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642	Post Options Post Reply Quote minuteman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 October 2008 at 10:46pm
	There is no confusion. The prophet said the best thing that was available at that time. To start the fast by sighting of the moon and to observe the Eid by sighting of the moon. It should not be taken too literally. Otherwise, no one should use any instrument (telescope etc.) to see the moon. In order to be more active on the literal words of the Hadith, every one should start a fast by seeing the moon. What if some one missed to see the moon? What will be order for him and from where will be that order? The Hadith says start the fast by observing the moon. If some one did not see the moon, what will he do? It is bad to make our own rules to overcome some difficulties. But when advised to be scientific, the request is turned down. This method of sighting of the moon by the computer cannot have any relevance with the pig or the wine. It was a very bad example. The best is to use the modern methods and predict the moon if it is a certain minimum of degrees above the horizon after sunset, say 15 degrees or so. The complication due to clouds is another problem. Then there are some maulvis sitting on this subject who will announce the sighting of the moon or not sighting. In order to avoid dissentions, they have to include all types (sects) of maulvis in that committee which announces the moon. I would like to know why that is done? Is that also acting on the literal words of the Hadith? Surely not. The present day Muslims are using all types of modern facilities, cars and motorcycles and aeroplanes and telephones. They seem to be acting on the Sunnah of the prophet s.a.w.s. They could make use of Computer too. As long as they are not disobedient, there is no harm. Otherwise, the Mullas should first stop seeing the TV programs which are quite against a few of the Islamic principles. Edited by minuteman - 14 October 2008 at 10:49pm

earth Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 09 October 2008 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 6	Post Options Post Reply Quote earth Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 October 2008 at 2:02am
	hi minuteman, thanks for your nice desc. yes, it should be hnr as we are muslim. now i understand why we should see the moon. visiblity is the main isu here.