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H3OO View Drop Down
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Points: 215 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H3OO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2008 at 10:44am
MM i read your questions but sorry i dont have the answers in that detail, you are asking. I do consult different books and all the info i had [relating to that  hadith], i have given it all. Thats all i can say.




Edited by H3OO - 19 October 2008 at 11:45am
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minuteman View Drop Down
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Originally posted by H3OO H3OO wrote:

MM i read your questions but sorry i dont have the answers in that detail, you are asking. I do consult different books and all the info i had [relating to that  hadith], i have given it all. Thats all i can say.


 
  Thanks all the same. No problem. Those were important questions. That person may never have been any Muslim at all. If he was a Muslim and reverted to paganism then we must know it was done in Makkah and not madinah.
 
 That man remained in Makkah and he was part of the enemy forces until Makkah was liberated. It appears to me that his crime was not apostacy only. If he was never a muslim then he could not be an apostate.
 
 The four persons mentioned in that Hadith, one of them was Ikramah, the son of Abu jehl. His wife brought him back from some port after she was given amnesty for him. Ikramah could not believe that he could be forgiven.
 
  Since there is no verse of the Quran telling that apostate should be killed, I cannot believe death penalty for apostates.
 
 As I said before, I do not believe that any one reciting Kalimah is a Kafir. It is absolute ignorance of the maulvis to not understand the meaning of Kafir. There are two types of enemies of Islam. One is a Munafiq, i.e. the secret enemy. The other  is Kafir. kafir is an enemy who openly renounces and abuses Islam.
 
 Please keep on feeding us with your good words in short posts. thanks.
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Whisper View Drop Down
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Points: 4752 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2008 at 12:15pm
MM i read your questions but sorry i dont have the answers in that detail, you are asking. I do consult different books and all the info i had, i have given it all.
 
You can read books? Really? But you can't read just the location on someone's profile?
 
It just pains us to deal with a sad Psychopath like you. I suggest, just go home and practice whatever you wish. Sometimes, it's just the best to stop barking and let the world sleep. None of us here is buying the nabi you have been advertising here, directly and indirectly with this apostacy issue.


Edited by Whisper - 19 October 2008 at 12:22pm
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Sign*Reader View Drop Down
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Originally posted by H300 H300 wrote:

so by now it should clear that there is no punishment for apostacy


When the Prophet (SAW) sent him to Yemen, he asked him, "How will you give a judgment or settle a dispute?" Mu`adh Ra answered; "I will refer to the Qur'�n Al Kareem." The Prophet (SAW)  then asked, "What will you do if you do not find the decree you are looking for in the Qur'�n Al Kareem?" Mu`adh Ra answered, "I will refer to the Sunnah." The Prophet (SAW)  asked, "But what will you do if you do not find a decree even in the Sunnah?" Mu`adh Ra readily answered, "I will be judge between mankind by resorting to juristic reasoning (Ijtih�d) to the best of my power." Now, Mu`adh's Ra staunch commitment to All�h's SWT Book and the Prophet (SAW)  Sunnah does not mean that he closed his mind to the countless and endless hidden or equivocal facts that await someone to unravel and adjudicate.

 

Perhaps both Mu`adh's ability in juristic reasoning and the courageous usage of his intelligence enabled him to master the Al-Fiqh, excelling all other scholars. The Prophet (SAW)  justifiably described Mu`adh Ra as "the most learned man of my nation in Hal�l and Har�m."

And you keep harping on where in Quran questions... not all fitna that raised its ugly head later on will be detailed in Quraan!

When Prophet approved Muadh's authority the case was closed!

The Mirzais case can be clearly screened with the The precedent of the OPPOSITION MOSQUE AT THE TABUK expedition--I hope friends don't need the detail here!

Allah's single sign order was enough!

9:108 Never stand thou forth therein.

The Prophet (SAW) ordered that mosque of evil men destroyed & burnt and it was done so!
Now what is your argument after this!
If Muadh like persons were available the same order will be executed!

you and your ilk are just lucky along with your protectors for a while!!!

Are you still looking for the escape hatches?

There are none amigo!



Edited by Sign*Reader - 19 October 2008 at 1:51pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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H3OO View Drop Down
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Points: 215 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H3OO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2008 at 2:00pm
SR, how can one deduce from above statement that apostate is punishable to death. Did Prophet[sa] gave any clear orders.

 or are u trying to say that if a man has intelligence and ability to reason, he cannot make any mistakes. He clearly says, it is order of Allah and prophet[sa] in the hadith, so i would ask where did prophet[sa] or Allah ordered.
So 1st mistake he makes here is by giving a misstatement or associating something with Allah or prophet[sa] that they clearly didnt said as a also shown by your latest statement. . That should be enough to prove that it is either not a reliable hadith or it is his personal opinion.

and thanks for clearing that u consult 3 things on Islamic matters.
Quran
Hadith/Sunnah
Companions of prophet[sa]

but i dont follow the 3rd option and neither do any Muslim.


Edited by H3OO - 19 October 2008 at 2:07pm
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H3OO View Drop Down
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Points: 215 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H3OO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2008 at 2:10pm
and another interesting thing is that how come on such a serious matter that involves the killing of a human being, can prophet[sa]  give anyone a go ahead/ lisence to kill without consulting the orders of Allah or prophet[sa].

Even prophet[sa] himself didnt make any major decisions on his own without the clear instructions of Allah specially when it comes to punishments, then how come his companion on his own make such big decision.



It is common sense but u have lost it completely


Edited by H3OO - 19 October 2008 at 2:37pm
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Whisper View Drop Down
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Points: 4752 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2008 at 10:19pm
It is common sense but u have lost it completely

Sign*Reader, by now you must realise that common sense was dished out ONLY to this absolutely shameless son of so n so. He can't read someone's profile and he as the common sense. Or, he thinks that only commoners of hos ilk have this sense!
 
He distorts every single thing in the absolute image of his nabi. He is the other end of absolute evil. That's why he is dead scared of me, I have exposed him as an absolute Psychopath.


Edited by Whisper - 20 October 2008 at 12:31am
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Whisper View Drop Down
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Points: 4752 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2008 at 10:23pm
but i dont follow the 3rd option and neither do any Muslim.

Who do you think you are?
Some shadow of that nabi you are advertising here? What authority do you hold to tell anyone what the Muslims follow and what they don't.

Ah, you mean those muslims? Who don't stand for the janaza of pobre Mozlems? I am warning you just this once, STOP barking your unqualified and uncertified assertions at us.


Edited by Whisper - 20 October 2008 at 12:34am
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