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Does Allah Say?
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Chrysalis View Drop Down
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Points: 2033 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chrysalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2008 at 10:36am
Yea, but not to forget. Sunnah we get to learn thru Hadith i.e. when Companions would relate to us how Prophet Muhammad did such and such thing etc. . . So basically, both are either equally reliable or equally unreliable.
 
Regarding the Hadith that SR mentioned, and u refer to. The hadith did not imply that Muadh was rating the reliablity of the Quran and Hadith. . .
 
The hadith went something like this, Prophet Muhammad asked Muadh, what he would do when faced with a problem - he said, I would consult the Quran, Prophet asked, what if u dont get the answer in Quran? Muadh replied, then I will refer to Sunnah and then Hadith . . . .
 
 
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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minuteman View Drop Down
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 Let us see whether I get a reply from Seeks before this thread is also closed. WE hope that discussion will continue. If necessary, undue abuse should be curtailed.
 
 Madame Chrysalis, what is your honest opinion about the topic? About the death for allthe apostates? Should it continue or be suspended? It is seen that when the weak party is in trouble, they get the threads closed somehow.
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H3OO View Drop Down
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The great thing about quran is that its protection has been promised by Allah himself but for hadiths, Allah has not taken any promise of its protection which is then left at the disposal of humans to protect it but we know what humans did of other books of Allah which were left at their disposal, so by this its clear that hadiths can never be as trusty as Quran bcz  its protection is at the disposal of humans and not Allah.

but here are some very useful guidelines about hadiths authenticity;

  1. The Word of God stands supreme.
  2. This is followed by the actual practices of the Holy Prophet of Islamsa. This is known as sunnah.
  3. This is followed by hadith, the words reported to be those of the Holy Prophetsa
  1. If the authenticity of the words of the Holy Prophetsa is established unquestionably, the words concerned are words put into the mouth of the Holy Prophetssa by God Almighty. Where there is no apparent contradiction between the word of the Holy Prophetsa and the Quran, the tradition may be accepted as authentic.

  2. There are no two opinions regarding the accepted fact that whenever any so-called tradition attributed to the Holy Prophet of Islamsa contradicts any clear injunction of the Holy Quran, such a tradition is rejected as false and is not accepted as the word of the Holy Prophetsa.

  3. If such a tradition does not glaringly violate any injunction of the Holy Quran and there is room for compromise, then ideally an attempt should be made to search for a suitable compromise before the final rejection of the tradition.

  4. In attempting to reconcile a tradition attributed to the Holy Prophetsa with the Holy Quran, it must always be borne in mind that the clear teachings of the Holy Quran are not to be compromised for the sake of a so-called tradition, but a genuine attempt is to be made to find an explanation of the tradition. Therefore in all cases of doubt, the tradition is put to the anvil of the Holy Quran and judged accordingly.

  5. If there is no contradiction between the Holy Quran and hadith, then their mutual merit of credibility would be determined according to the reliability of the sources and the chain of narrators.

  6. Such a tradition will also be compared with other authentic and widely accepted traditions to make sure that the tradition does not conflict with other traditions.

  7. Lastly, another reliable method of investigating the credibility of a tradition is to study its internal evidence critically. If the contents of the tradition clash with the image of the Holy Prophet of Islam which has emerged from a study of his conduct and bearing throughout his life, then such a tradition would be rejected as a false attribution to the Holy Prophetsaor as being against the principles of logic and common sense. [this is very important]



Edited by H3OO - 20 October 2008 at 11:38am
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Whisper View Drop Down
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About the death for all the apostates?
 
Why worry, my friend? We would like you and your sidekick to stay alive as death will be something of a relief for the two of you.
 
He has completely disappeared. Hasn't he?
Just one question. Why do you folks disturb us with such vengence? Why can't you just practice the juju you believe in and let us just be? Why do you act such pests and just force us to think about pesticides?
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Whisper View Drop Down
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Points: 4752 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 October 2008 at 11:36am
Sorry, I was wrong a pissu (bed pest) never disappears, it always appears in some folds as soon as you are about to sleep.
 
Seeks, Paa Jee, Crysallis, we will act now with a sack of pesticide for this one. I am also surprised about our good old Minuteman, but he is not a Psychopath. 


Edited by Whisper - 20 October 2008 at 11:39am
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Chrysalis View Drop Down
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Originally posted by minuteman minuteman wrote:

  
 
 Madame Chrysalis, what is your honest opinion about the topic? About the death for allthe apostates? Should it continue or be suspended? It is seen that when the weak party is in trouble, they get the threads closed somehow.
 
My honest opinion about the topic, brother - is that I have none. This particular issue, I am however honestly very curious about. So, I dont know, because I have heard conflicting opinions abt apostasy, and not just on this forum. So inshalah, until my questions are answered - I dont have an opinion.
 
With regards to you however - I do not believe you have done anything that deserves to be suspended upon. And also, if this thread wasnt closed when ppl where hurling personal abuses - I dont see why it deserves to be closed now. Atleast people are civil now - and are behaving like adults. With the exception of a few.
 
However there are other members on this forum - Muslims by name - and not part of this thread that are spreading blatant misinformation abt Islam - and yet are bieng ignored. . . simply because they are not as 'scandelous' as a potential ahmedi . . . and are bieng completely ignored. Atleast H300 made his inclinations clear - so we know his points of view. . . I give him credit for that. But others are bieng ignored, cz its not fun to bash someone whose not a ahmedi.
 
Regards,
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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H3OO View Drop Down
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                                   IMPORTANT
Seeks said:
Abdullah ibn Khatal, who had previously, accepted Islam, and been accepted Islam and been sent by Prophet to collect alms tax. A slave and one of the Ansars went along with him. Coming to a halt in their journey, Abdullah ibn Khatal told the slave to prepare a chicken for a meal, but the slave went to sleep instead, and was unable to prepare food in time. Abdullah ibn Khatal became angry and killed the  slave. Fearing that if he returned to Medina, the Prophet would exact retribution  for the slave's death, he turned apostate and joined infidels. There he used to abuse Prophet thru his poems. On the day of conquest of Makkah, he wrapped himself  up in the curtain  of the kabah. Here, we need to learn that on the day of conquest of Makkah when Prophet entered the city, he gave his commander orders not to do battle with anyone unless they themselves were attacked. If they took refuge  beneath the curtain of the Kabah, they were forgiven., But this person - Abduallah ibn Khatal was ordered to be killed  even when he wrapped himself in the curtain of Kabah. He was ordered to be killed in the very place. Abu Burza and Saeed ibn Harith {RA} executed him between black stone and place of Ibrahim {Maqam e  Ibrahim}. This shows the severity of the case.
_________________
 
i said;


Seeks, u see the truth can never be hidden for too long, and u  spill it out yourself. Just see the above blue statement and now u must know why was he to be killed. very simple, not for apostacy but for the murder of an innocent whose crime was only not to prepare a meal.  Its very very clear but its incredible, how this line was/is ignored by many scholars just to fit their views.

The truth is there to see.
No more to say.

Edited by H3OO - 20 October 2008 at 1:24pm
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minuteman View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Whisper Whisper wrote:

About the death for all the apostates?
 
Why worry, my friend? We would like you and your sidekick to stay alive as death will be something of a relief for the two of you.
 
He has completely disappeared. Hasn't he?
Just one question. Why do you folks disturb us with such vengence? Why can't you just practice the juju you believe in and let us just be? Why do you act such pests and just force us to think about pesticides?
 
 Whisper, I did not have any doubt that you are a Muslim. I cannot see why you have so much antipathy (dislike) about a matter being discussed in the light of Quran and Sunnah?? Please try to be like a neutral gender spectator.
 
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