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balqees View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2005 at 8:04pm

Assalaamu alaikum ya muslimeen.

Greetings to all.

Bharatiya: Looking forward to ur questions, and hope to help solve your confusion a bit.

Just needed to inform u, tho...I am going out of town tomorrow. Taking my laptop with me to hopefully stay in touch. But will be away from even that (the laptop) for a while as well (maybe around one week-ten days). So, if you make a post and it takes me long time to respond, please don't get upset.

I will eventually come back to the forums and answer, inshaAllah.

balqees.

 

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Mauricio View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2005 at 9:53pm

Thank you to those who answer since your responses are very helpful.

Balqees

Can you expand a little on the world of the Jinn. I went into the Internet and got an impression of it, but would like to hear your opinion.

thank you again.

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Jazz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 July 2005 at 3:16am
Originally posted by balqees balqees wrote:

Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? But what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life? And on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do.(s. 2, v. 85)

You see...those who question or disbelieve in any one portion of the Quran (even if it be one verse), while yet believing in the rest, and practicing upon it (the rest)...still their penalty shall be grievous indeed.

In other words, the essence of this verse is to instruct us that we must accept and act upon all that is contained within the Quran.

I believe that one could still be a muslim all the same, even if they question or disagree with any one portion. But it surely does not behoove him/her to do so. This verse is very clear in that respect.

I hope that this answers your question.

balqees.


Hi Balqees,

In light of the verse you posted (from Quran?)

Some questions that come to mind are,

What "disgrace" is this referring to?

What is the "grieveous punishment"?

You said

Quote we must accept and act upon all that is contained within the Quran

 
How does one explain this, from Quran?

[5:51] "O you who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians for friends; they are friends to each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people"

Does this mean to say that a "believer" who takes a Jew or Christian as a friend is a Jew or a Christian?

Does this mean that you really must act upon this?

Who are the "unjust people"?



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Deus View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 July 2005 at 10:34am
Originally posted by Jazz Jazz wrote:

What "disgrace" is this referring to?

What is the "grieveous punishment"?


 
002.085 And yet, it is you who slay one another and drive some of your own people from their homelands, aiding one another against them in sin and hatred; but if they come to you as captives, you ransom them - although the very [act of] driving them away has been made unlawful to you! Do you, then, believe in some parts of the divine writ and deny the truth pf other parts? What, then, could be the reward of those among you who do such things but ignominy in the life of this world and, on the Day of Resurrection, commitment to most grievous suffering? For God is not unmindful of what you do. [M. Asad Translation]

To begin with, this verse is referring to some of the Jews at the time of the Prophet who had been of different tribes and fighting each other. The act of a Jew killing another Jew is forbidden in the Torah. This explains the "it is only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do you reject the rest?" I think the remainder of the verse should be clear now from the context. The disgrace is referring to the losses in this life. The grievous penalty is referring to the penalty in the afterlife.

Originally posted by Jazz Jazz wrote:

[5:51] "O you who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians for friends; they are friends to each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people"

Does this mean to say that a "believer" who takes a Jew or Christian as a friend is a Jew or a Christian?

Does this mean that you really must act upon this?

To understand this verse, one must, again, look at the context. It was revealed at a time of war between the Muslims and some of the Christian/Jewish tribes at that time. I personally prefer M. Asad's translation here because it brings out the political context of the verse, where "friends" is more correctly understood as "allies."

005.051 Oh you who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another � and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide such evildoers. [M. Asad Translation]

 

Some scholars will further tell you that the said verse is addressed to specific Muslims hypocrites who had taken Jews and Christians as protectors and allies in the time of war in order to keep themselves safe. Also, "allies" can be understood in the moral sense, as in taking them (Jews and Christians) as role models, etc.

 

(Reference: Tafsir of Ibn Kathir)

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Jazz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2005 at 2:25am
Originally posted by Deus Deus wrote:

Originally posted by Jazz Jazz wrote:

What "disgrace" is this referring to?

What is the "grieveous punishment"?


 
002.085 And yet, it is you who slay one another and drive some of your own people from their homelands, aiding one another against them in sin and hatred; but if they come to you as captives, you ransom them - although the very [act of] driving them away has been made unlawful to you! Do you, then, believe in some parts of the divine writ and deny the truth pf other parts? What, then, could be the reward of those among you who do such things but ignominy in the life of this world and, on the Day of Resurrection, commitment to most grievous suffering? For God is not unmindful of what you do. [M. Asad Translation]

To begin with, this verse is referring to some of the Jews at the time of the Prophet who had been of different tribes and fighting each other.


Deus,
Where can this be found in Quran?

Originally posted by Deus Deus wrote:


Originally posted by Jazz Jazz wrote:

[5:51] "O you who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians for friends; they are friends to each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people"

Does this mean to say that a "believer" who takes a Jew or Christian as a friend is a Jew or a Christian?

Does this mean that you really must act upon this?

To understand this verse, one must, again, look at the context. It was revealed at a time of war between the Muslims and some of the Christian/Jewish tribes at that time.


Where does it say this in Quran?


Originally posted by Deus Deus wrote:


Some scholars will further tell you that the said verse is addressed to specific Muslims hypocrites who had taken Jews and Christians as protectors and allies in the time of war in order to keep themselves safe. Also, "allies" can be understood in the moral sense, as in taking them (Jews and Christians) as role models, etc.

 

(Reference: Tafsir of Ibn Kathir)


Where does it say this in Quran?

I regret being so mono-repetitious in my replies Deus, but my questions are sincere and genuine in seeking to find out the basis of the opinions that are offered about the ayat from Quran that I have refered to.

Is it such that only "scholars" are to understand the guidances in Quran, then give THEIR meanings to others as to the guidances?

Quran:
002:242 "Allah thus makes clear to you His communications that you may understand"

There are many other ayats in Quran that affirm the clarity of guidances therein.

Is it such that the "scholars" are relying on the narrations of mere men (ahadith) to attain their scholarship?

Is it that Quran is actually lacking in being clear in it's own right, and ahadith (derived from narrations of mere humans) must be relied upon to understand what Quran really intends to say as a "clear" guidance?


Edited by Jazz
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Deus View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 July 2005 at 9:35am

Jazz. I'll answer all three of your questions with one answer: It doesn't. You have to understand that the Quran was revealed in stages (there is a verse stating this too). Many verses were revealed to Muhammad to address very specific issues at a specific time. At the time of the prophet, the Muslims knew and understood the contexts of the verses and surahs because they knew when they were revealed (i.e. in a time of war, or as a consequence of some action, etc.) Take for example verses 24:11-18. If anyone reads this for the first time, they probably wouldn't understand what it's addressing. It's speaking of a lie/scandal. But what scandal is this? To understand it, we'll have to know when this verse was revealed and why. It turns out that this verse was revealed when a scandalous rumor about Aisha's (the prophet's wife) was being spread. I won't go into the details of the story, but I'm giving you an example of why we need to know the time and place (and cause) of a revelation.
Now your next question is probably "how do we know the context of all these verses if they're not mentioned in the Quran itself?" Well, this is a scholarship that has been taught and passed down ever since the time of the Prophet's life. This area of study is known as "Asbab al-Nuzul" (meaning: Reasons/causes of Revelation).

Originally posted by Jazz Jazz wrote:


Is it such that only "scholars" are to understand the guidances in Quran, then give THEIR meanings to others as to the guidances?

Oh definitely not. I don't know if you're familiar with how hadiths are studied and verified for authenticity, but the study of Asbab al-Nuzul follows a similar procedure. We have several sources that we use to understand some parts of the Quran, and they are known as Tafsirs (exegies). There are 4 which are considered very reliable, as they were written some 100-200 years after the time of the prophet and by people of great scholarships (we know this because even their biographies are intensly studied). The exegies are not opinionated. It's not like the scholar says, "I think this verse means so-and-so." No, the scholar provides narations (hadiths) by people who lived at the time of the prophet and witnessed the revelation of the Quran in stages. It is also important to know that even though the scholars who wrote the tafsir lived in different places and times, they come to a common conclusion most of the time (just like in science, when scientists arrive to the same conclusion using different methods and so on.)

I hope I've answered your questions, and I hope that other Muslims can contribute more to this thread. You have to keep in mind that the Quran is not a history book (like the Old Testament). The Quran and its exegies are kept in seperate books, unlike the Chrisitian Bible which includes both the teachings and the interpretation of those annonymous people who wrote it.

"And peace is upon those who follow the guidance." (20:47)

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Jazz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2005 at 6:09am
Originally posted by Deus Deus wrote:

Now your next question is probably "how do we know the context of all these verses if they're not mentioned in the Quran itself?" Well, this is a scholarship that has been taught and passed down ever since the time of the Prophet's life. This area of study is known as "Asbab al-Nuzul" (meaning: Reasons/causes of Revelation).


This is basically what I have already proposed with this question.........................

Originally posted by Jazz Jazz wrote:


Is it such that only "scholars" are to understand the guidances in Quran, then give THEIR meanings to others as to the guidances?

Here is what is supposed to be the case, according to Quran.......

[2.242] Allah thus makes clear to you His communications that you may understand.


Edited by Jazz
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Jazz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2005 at 4:03am
Originally posted by balqees balqees wrote:

In other words, the essence of this verse is to instruct us that we must accept and act upon all that is contained within the Quran.


Even this?

Quran:

[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

[9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

Sahih al-Bukari

كتاب الرهن (The Book of Mortgaging)
No. 2349 - Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

  


Allah's Apostle said, "Who would kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf as he has harmed Allah and His Apostle ?" Muhammad bin Maslama (got up and) said, "I will kill him." So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to Ka'b and said, "I want a loan of one or two Wasqs of food grains." Ka'b said, "Mortgage your women to me." Muhammad bin Maslama said, "How can we mortgage our women, and you are the most handsome among the Arabs?" He said, "Then mortgage your sons to me." Muhammad said, "How can we mortgage our sons, as the people will abuse them for being mortgaged for one or two Wasqs of food grains? It is shameful for us. But we will mortgage our arms to you." So, Muhammad bin Maslama promised him that he would come to him next time. They (Muhammad bin Maslama and his companions came to him as promised and murdered him. Then they went to the Prophet and told him about it.
---------------------------------------------------------- ---------

كتاب الأيمان والنذور (The Book of Oaths and Vows)
No. 6240 - Narrated Az-Zuhri:

  


I heard 'Urwa bin Az-Zubair, Said bin Al-Musaiyab, 'Alqama bin Waqqas and 'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah narrating from 'Aisha, the wife of the Prophet, the story about the liars who said what they said about her and how Allah revealed her innocence afterwards. Each one of the above four narrators narrated to me a portion of her narration. (It was said in it), "The Prophet stood up, saying, 'Is there anyone who can relieve me from 'Abdullah bin Ubai?' On that, Usaid bin Hudair got up and said to Sa'd bin 'Ubada, La'amrullahi (By the Eternity of Allah), we will kill him!' "
---------------------------------------------------------- --------

كتاب الوكالة (The Book of Representation, Business by Proxy)
No. 2170 - Narrated Zaid bin Khalid and Abu Huraira:

  


The Prophet said, "O Unais! Go to the wife of this (man) and if she confesses (that she has committed illegal sexual intercourse), then stone her to death."
---------------------------------------------------------- ---------

There are many more ahadith such as this.

Quran:

[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
---------------------------------------------------------- ---------

It's a worry.











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