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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Points: 1930 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2009 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

I feel honored that my comments have such sticking power.  Hope you remember the context of the threads too.
 
Doo bop - the problem is that the Quran is just vague enough that many groups- Taliban, Al-Quaeda, etc. believe that Islam condones killing of non-muslims.
 
Yes we have had a few nut jobs here and there bombing at abortion clinics thinking that is the Christian way.
 
The Gospel does not order the Christian to kill or condone killing.  It just can't be read into the Gospel the way is can the Quran.
 
Believer: I suppose if you can feel honor regarding the numerous scurrilous statements you have posted here then you are indeed a unique individual. 
 
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Chrysalis View Drop Down
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Points: 2033 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chrysalis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 April 2009 at 4:14am
Originally posted by Salome Salome wrote:

     I actually beg to differ with Believer, it's not that the Qu'ran is vague. Most  of the " radical groups" in Islam I'm sure can not read and those that can exploit that and tell them ( the illiterate ) anything they wish to. 
   
   Salome 
 
Good point you brought up Salome. A majority of followers of radical leaders, are illetrate, and have 2nd hand islamic knowledge - that is, if you wanna call it "islamic knowlegde". They believe anything that particular person tells them, because they trust those ppl blindly and believe sincerely that they are bieng taught the truth. Even if most that they are bieng taught has no place in Islam.
 
Ignorant masses also dont have the ability to distinguish b/w personal opinions of the leader, and Islamic teachings. They confuse the two, and think all the leader is saying, is coming from Islam.
 
For e.g: Afghanistan. Majority of the Afghani population is illetrate, and has little islamic awareness - which made it easy for the Taliban to preach thier message. Not to mention the fact that the Taliban itself were not well-versed in Arabic or the Qur'an - rather relied on bits and pieces of Islam that they learnt in Madrassahs. . .
 
Had the population been educated, and well-versed in Islam - events would have been starkingly different.
 
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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believer View Drop Down
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2009 at 10:54am
Very good post chrysalis and salome-
 
knowledge is power!
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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believer View Drop Down
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 April 2009 at 11:00am
salome I have read the Quran.   I have been told many times that if I don't read the Quran in arabic the message is not complete.
 
Do you believe that the message is lost when reading the Bible in various translations?  I don't believe it is. 
 
 
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Salome View Drop Down
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Points: 60 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Salome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 April 2009 at 6:10pm
   Believer, No I don't think the translation gets lost, BUT what language was the Bible written in in the beginning ? it wasn't written in english I assure you.
   The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and Aramaic and the New Testament was written in Greek. So, do you think possibly maybe there was somewhat of a loss in translation since some languages don't have letters or words that match up in the english language.

  Salome


Edited by Salome - 29 April 2009 at 6:17pm
May you have the hindsight to know where you've been
the foresight to know where you're going
and the insight to know when you're going too far.
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Nur_Ilahi View Drop Down
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Points: 1031 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nur_Ilahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 April 2009 at 10:05pm
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

salome I have read the Quran.   I have been told many times that if I don't read the Quran in arabic the message is not complete.
 
Do you believe that the message is lost when reading the Bible in various translations?  I don't believe it is. 
 
 
 
If there are misunderstandings or errors or misconceptions according to different translations, where are we going to refer to if there is no original around?
 
Maybe the only percentage left after all the translations is about 50 percent. So where is the other fifty?
 
KIA? MIA?
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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believer View Drop Down
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2009 at 6:58am
Your belief is that the various translations contradict each other but they are actually complimentary.

I have mentioned before that many Bible studies request that you bring more then one translation to class.  It actually adds a fuller deeper meaning to the verse.

That is why all of Christianity has worked to save scriptures and not burned them the way Uthman did the Quran.   Muslims have no originals to compare and prove that the Quran has not changed. 
 
KIA? MIA?  It is known through history that verses were lost from the Quran before the Quran was compiled and there was war where people who had memorized the Quran were killed.  Aisha talks about chapers that had more verses then were present in her day.  What would be helpful to Islam is if some of the bones and leaves had been saved.  Also the various copies from the companions of Mohammd had been collected and saved.
 
We have bits of scripture from 125AD- now remember the Scripture was written on a very fragile material so it is a miracle any of it has survived.  We also have are church fathers that reference scripture in their writings.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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hat2010 View Drop Down
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Points: 561 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hat2010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2009 at 5:49pm
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Edited by Jamal Morelli - 01 November 2009 at 1:28am
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