Tolerance

 

Hello Epsilon,

 

Welcome to the forums, there are some really nice people here, muslims nonmuslims alike. . . Nice to see you here. Hope you have a pleasant stay, and are an active member. . .looking forward to your participation here. 

 

question of most concern to me is whether it is at all possible that Islam can co-exist with unbelievers, and acknowledge their right to unbelief.

 

Then you need not be concerned at all. I would reccommend you read about Islamic history, back when Muslims were the superpower  - and how they coexisted peacefully with the peace-abiding nonmuslims. The Muslim society is one that revolves around preserving the family unit, and working for the collective benefit of the society - not eliminating non-muslims around the world.

 

Even if we take a look at the non-muslims' worst fear i.e. Islamic Shariah - nonmuslims are treated very tolerantly and thier rights are protected.

Under Shariah, nonmuslims have a right to practise thier religion (or lack of) freely, build thier places of worship, live thier life according to thier religious (or lack of) principles etc. Non-Muslims dont even have to follow the laws which are set for Muslims. . . i.e. all the prohibitions and limitations that exist for Muslims within Shariah, are not applicable to Non-Muslims at all, and cannot be forced on them (drinking alcohol, eating pork, dress code, marriage laws etc). They cannot be discriminated against and have equal rights as a Muslim (except that they cannot preach thier religion to Muslims - thats about the only difference I can think of).

 

So Islam is perfectly tolerant towards Non-Muslims and does not enforce itself on them. The Qur'an says 'Let there be no compulsion in religion'. You need not fear.

 

 

 

See you around on the forums.

 

 

 

 

 

 

8:22

 

8:55

 

9:5

 

9:28-30

 

98:6

 

 

 

[2:256] There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the right path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

 

Allah said, There is no compulsion in religion, meaning, "Do not force anyone to become Muslim, for Islam is plain and clear, and its proofs and evidence are plain and clear. Therefore, there is no need to force anyone to embrace Islam. Rather, whoever Allah directs to Islam, opens his heart for it and enlightens his mind, will embrace Islam with certainty. Whoever Allah blinds his heart and seals his hearing and sight, then he will not benefit from being forced to embrace Islam.''

As for the Hadith that Imam Ahmad recorded, in which Anas said that the Messenger of Allah said to a man,"Embrace Islam.'' The man said, "I dislike it.'' The Prophet said, "Even if you dislike it.''

 

[2:106] Whatever a verse (revelation) do Nansakh (We abrogate) or Nunsiha (cause to be forgotten), We bring a better one or similar to it. Know you not that Allah is Able to do all things

 

 

You wrote: I see you are taking up a lot of issue at once, not that I have a problem with that but only that it does not help rather confuse yourself probably and make us wander going in every direction without any purspose.

I'm a multi-tasker when it comes to thinking. Sorry.

You wrote: Why don't you start with one problem you are having and we go after that then next.

I have a problem with forced conversion and forced submission and being devalued as a human.

You wrote: I find it quite interesting that in another post you mentioned to have only gone through 2nd and 4the Sura before closing the Quran, while your above post suggest that either you have reopened the Quran (good for you) or you are following leads from someone. Whatever be the case I take your concerns seriously.

I didn't say that I didn't finish the Quran. I said I had a hard time even getting through the first 4 Surahs. It was in Surah 4 that I realized the Quran was not from the God I know.

You wrote: Let me address of what you have of the Quran made you uneasy.

I understand, sometimes a little bit help is needed to make sense of things that seem to be locked for some of us.

8:22 and 8:55 both say nothing different or strange, unless you live in a closet.

You reject God, you will be rejected. You reject the authority of Law of the USA, you will condemned and punished. You reject and deny your maker and His bounties He bestowed upon you, what else should be your fate?

I don't have a problem with God rejecting me if I reject Him. That's not the problem here. What Allah says is that disbelievers are the WORST OF BEASTS (some translations: VILEST OF ANIMALS). At that point we disbelievers become less valuable than a pig.

You wrote: That's what is called justice. Those who acknowledge, thank, and praise their maker must be better in the sight of a just Maker, why not.

I don't think Matthew 23:33 says anything different:

"you snakes, you brood of vipers, how will you escape being condemned to hell." I don't see you having a problem with that in your post?

or Matthew 23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of law and pharisees, you hypocrites...a son of hell as you are."

I want you to address these two first and get done first before we ake the others.

Jesus was talking to a very specific group of people in Matthew 23. He was not talking to disbelievers in general. He was talking to the Pharisees and teachers of the law who sit in the seat of Moses and oppress the people with their religious traditions. He was talking about hypocritical people who lead their followers astray. He was not talking about people rejecting him or his message.

But, it shouldn't matter what the Bible says since the Bible is a "corrupted book" and the Quran has completely abrogated it. This topic is not supposed to be about Jesus, Christianity, or the Bible. This topic is supposed to be about tolerance in Islam.

Jesus was not calling people animals because of their disbelief. Because of their behaviors, they were like pits of vipers. Have you read the entire passage to keep things in context?

And in Jude, it was comparing their way of thinking and abusing to be like unreasoning animals. Jude didn't say they WERE animals, let alone the VILEST of animals. And if you read the whole passage, these were immoral people who abused their own bodies and slandered God and celestial beings.

But according to the Quran, simply because I do not believe in Muhammad that makes me a disbeliever and therefore the worst of beasts. It has nothing to do with my behavior or love for God. It has to do with believing in Muhammad. I'm sorry, but that is rather bizarre to me.

Besides, according to the New Testament, there is no vile or unclean animal (ie pig) or human (ie Gentile)...so I cannot be lowered to the level of a pig or worse since all animals are equal, and in Christ all people are equal.

You said there is no forced conversion in Islam. But I must object to that statement. There seems to be plenty of examples of forced conversion/submission:

Quran 9:5

Quran 9:29

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 643

Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Numbers 29-35

Sahih Muslim, Book 19, Number 4294

Sahih Muslim, Book 19, Number 4366

Sahih Muslim, Book 31, Number 5917

Sahih Muslim, Book 31, Number 5918