Islam 101 questions

Just read this thread briefly today, not sure what direction Jazz is taking anyway thought I'd give a short reply. Jazz wrote:

Even this?

Quran:

[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

Do you know what the next verse is? Well, it seems like you are picking and choosing verses from the Qura'n that stir emotions, very much like some in the media. If your intention is to truly understand the Qur'an without any prejudice or bias then you must read the verses that precede it and those that follow it. Also the commentary provided by the scholars may be helpful. Well, here's the verse that follows it:

008.013:This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment.

A proper understanding of the Qur'an will show you that "pre-emption" is not the way of Islam. Muslims are permitted to fight back only when they are attacked or oppressed again only with the attackers or oppressors.

The next verse Jazz quotes is:

9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

Once again this has been taken in isolation. Here are the two preceding verses:

009.012
YUSUFALI: But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained.
009.013
YUSUFALI: Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!

I hope this makes sense to anyone who honestly wants to understand Islam. I have not answered the other hadith that Jazz has quoted because Muslims rely on the Qur'an first and not everyone read the Hadith to the same extent that they read the Qur'an.

Jaz,Qur'an is an whole process...you can't understand the other steps before not passing the first steps....your comments on the issue is empty...worthless...how can we explain the issue to your current thinking mode?....

Edited by Suleyman

Tasneem wrote: Thanks Br Suleyman. Jazz your question has been answered.

With respect Tasneem, my questions have not been answered, here are a few that remain unanswered..........
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What do you make of "contend"?

What are the possibilities of it's meaning...............do you think this is clear?

Do you think that by challenging Mohammed's claims, honesty and credibility is "contending"?

Why would there be a need to commit cruel, vicious atrocities to anyone who "contends"..........so, I wonder what punishment does Shayten get?.............it should be heaps, yes?......but I don't see any punishments for Shayten to be found in Quran, that come anywhere near the level that is commanded against "unbelievers".

Could it be that it was belief in Mohammed that was really the issue, not so much belief in the existence of one God?
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Tasneem wrote: Your purpose does not seem to be to understand Islam, only to nitpick.

My purpose Tasneem, is to enquire and get answers to genuine and legitimate questions.

Tasneem wrote: When a person reads the Qur'an with the sincere intention of understanding Islam he will come out with a lighter and illuminated heart and some verses may cause confusion which he will seek to clarify.

I could not be more sincere in my intentions Tasneem.

Do you not see that there is confusion that needs to be clarified?

Do you not see that I am seeking to clarify?

Tasneem wrote: But to me it seems you are simply looking only where you can find fault and it would be futile to reason with you when you have such an attitude.

Things are not always as they seem Tasneem, I am looking at it all, to closely examine and bring into the light whatever is found without any bias, you see I don't believe things because my parents, cultural background or community might have, I don't believe things because it feels good, I don't believe because a lot of others might believe and it might be a popular belief.

I don't believe a lot that has been claimed about Mohammed and Quran because the weight of evidence, according to preserved, authenticated and approved narrations and historical records indicate that much of what has been claimed is not true.
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Dear Suleyman,

What are the first steps and the other steps that you speak of?


Edited by Jazz

Jazz wrote:

Do you think that by challenging Mohammed's claims, honesty and credibility is "contending"?

Why would there be a need to commit cruel, vicious atrocities to anyone who "contends"..........so, I wonder what punishment does Shayten get?.............it should be heaps, yes?......but I don't see any punishments for Shayten to be found in Quran, that come anywhere near the level that is commanded against "unbelievers".

Could it be that it was belief in Mohammed that was really the issue, not so much belief in the existence of one God?

Salaam,

Whle I am not as well read as the other people who have answered your questions, I will offer as much as I have.

To challenge Mohammed's (pbuh) claim is questioning the faith all together, isn't it?  Since the Koran was revealed to him?  There wasn't a situation (from the hadiths or ayats that you presented) that claims they belive in Allah (swt) and not in Mohammed(phub).  And I wouldn't consider lying about the prophets wife as being an honest challenge, more of a slandering campaign.

The difference between Shaitan and the unbelievers is that Shaitan is not an unbeliever.  Shaitan knows about the existance of Allah(swt) but choose to defy him.  Please read below.

15:28-39. Behold! thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud moulded into shape;  "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."  So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together:  Not so Iblis: he refused to be among those who prostrated themselves. ((Allah)) said: "O Iblis! what is your reason for not being among those who prostrated themselves?"  (Iblis) said: "I am not one to prostrate myself to man, whom Thou didst create from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape."  ((Allah)) said: "Then get thee out from here; for thou art rejected, accursed. "And the curse shall be on thee till the day of Judgment."  (Iblis) said: "O my Lord! give me then respite till the Day the (dead) are raised."  ((Allah)) said: "Respite is granted thee  "Till the Day of the Time appointed."  (Iblis) said: "O my Lord! because Thou hast put me in the wrong, I will make (wrong) fair-seeming to them on the earth, and I will put them all in the wrong,- !

This should answer your questions.

Jazz wrote:

I don't believe a lot that has been claimed about Mohammed and Quran because the weight of evidence, according to preserved, authenticated and approved narrations and historical records indicate that much of what has been claimed is not true.

So they were right in the assumption that you are here to nitpick.  Instead of questioning ayats out of contex why don't you present your whole case and possibly, God willing we can answer the true questions that you have.

Lehua