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Caringheart wrote: The Saint wrote: Louis Berkof identifies Augustine as the originator of the concept of original sin: "The early Church Fathers contained nothing very definite about original sin. . . . It is especially in Augustine that the doctrine of original sin comes to fuller development. According to him, the nature of man, both physical and moral, is totally corrupted by Adam's sin, so that he cannot do otherwise than sin. This inherited corruption of original sin is a moral punishment for the sin of Adam." Systematic Theology, 244-245." http://www.sundaylaw.net/studies/truelife/fundamentals/original.htm Greetings The Saint,Do you know of any human able to live a sinless life?The answer to that is no.� Yshwe was the only sinless man to walk this earth and that was because of His divine nature.All of us who have come into the world in the usual way arrive with the sin nature... that is the taint of original sin.� The sin nature predisposes us to sinful behavior. � Only by inviting Yshwe Messiah, through the Holy Spirit, into our hearts are we able to overcome this nature in ourselves... in taking Yshwe to share the yoke.� God sent Yshwe to overcome the sin of the world.As Yshwe said;'my yoke is easy, my burden is light' <span id="en-KJV-23489" ="text="" matt-11-29"=""><sup ="versenum"="">29�Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.</span> These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. Peace and blessings to you,Caringheart

What is the source of your claims? How do you know Jesus PBUH was sinless? And by what logic do you claim all human beings are born with a taint?

Beware:

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it. Deut. 4:2

If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. Rev. 22:18

Jesus was a man. He was born of a woman. He was the seed of Abraham, the offspring of David, descended from Adam. Matt. 1:1, Rom. 1:3, Heb. 2:16, Rev. 22:16. The humanity of Christ is fully and unequivocally taught in the Bible, and to teach the doctrine that men are born sinners is to teach the blasphemy that "the man Christ Jesus" was born a sinner.

Furthermore_

"The Bible says, "Verily he took not on him the nature of angels but the seed of Abraham." Heb. 2:16. "In all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest." Heb. 2:17. "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same." Heb. 2:14. "For both he that sanctifieth and they that are sanctified are all one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren." Heb. 2:11. "For we have not an high priest which can not be touched with the feelings of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we, yet without sin." Heb. 4:15."

"The Bible teaches that Christ was, in all respects, a real man, possessing both a human body and a human soul, and with all the attributes of a man. He was born of a woman. He was nourished and cared for by his mother, as other men are. He was circumcised according to the law of Moses. He was once an infant in knowledge, for he grew both in Wisdom and in stature. He hungered, he thirsted, he ate, he drank, he labored, he slept, he grew tired, and he lived and died like other men. He was recognized as a man and a Jew by other men."

Peace
The Saint

Caringheart wrote: The Saint wrote: What is the source of your claims? How do you know Jesus PBUH was sinless? And by what logic do you claim all human beings are born with a taint? The Saint Greetings The Saint,We have the testimony of all the many witnesses to the life of Yshwe that show that He (and only He) has led a sinless life on earth.How do you explain man's propensity to sin if not that he was born with a sin nature?Yshwe was sent to help us... to overcome the sin nature that is in us all.I have seen it.� I know that taking Yshwe and the Holy Spirit into the heart overcomes the propensity to sin.� It is not a thing we can do on our own, but with the power of the Holy Spirit it is possible... it is done.asalaam and blessings,Caringheart

Greetings Caringheart

As a great Prophet of God it is not difficult to accept the fact that he may have been almost sinless. But being almost sinless is not evidence enough to make him God Almighty. And the testimony you are referring to is controversial and even doubtful. The Bible is not a divine book. It may contain parts of the Injeel but in its entirety it is definitely not divine.

As regards the potential of sin in human beings you just need to compare a saintly man with a thief or a murderer and you will know that even though man is born with the potential to sin he can if he wants prevent himself from sinning.

And that is exactly where the purpose of this life lies. This life is a test. We are given all kinds of liberties but also warned that God Almighty has asked you to hold yourself back from doing certain things.

The reward of being good and pious in this life is the everlasting pleasure of God Almighty, in hereafter.

So, you see we do not need anyone to wash away our sins. We can do it ourselves by seeking God's forgiveness. He knows we will sin and He promises us that He will forgive us if we pray for forgiveness.

Edited by The Saint - 12 November 2014 at 5:23am

Caringheart wrote: Greetings The Saint,Yshwe was not 'almost sinless'... He was a 'lamb without blemish'... pure and sinless.and man isn't just born with the 'potential to sin', he is born with the propensity to sin.� Lying comes most naturally to children from the time they begin to speak... so does being sneaky and trying not to get caught... just like Adam and Eve tried to hide the fact that they had erred.Children are taught not to be this way, by teaching them the ways of God and of what God expects... but their sin nature must be trained out of them... and even then as they approach adulthood that sin nature reasserts its pull and its lure on them, if they do not have the Spirit of God strong within them.� It is when this pull and this lure wins that Yshwe comes to save.asalaam and blessings,Caringheart

I have an interesting quote from the Bible here: �If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters�yes, even their own life�such a person cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:25-26).

If we are to believe the usual argument that the bible is a truthful documentation of Jesus' life and moral values, the quote I've provided and many many others reflect blatantly skewed morality and contempt for one's fellow man. A person who facilitates this, let alone practices it, is truly sinful.

You obviously did not read what I wrote yesterday. That this life is a test. Therefore, man is born with the propensity to do both good and evil. He is also given free will to choose between doing good or evil.

Starting with Adam all prophets upto Muhammad PBUH were sent to teach and guide mankind as per the will of Allah Almighty. So, Jesus did not come with a unique mission. In fact, he was sent only to instruct the erring Jews.

But he replied, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel." So, he was not even a universal saviour in his own words.

Truly all prophets PBUTA were sent to specific nations, as was Jesus PBUH. Only Muhammad PBUH was sent as a mercy to all mankind and for all mankind.

honeto wrote: Hola Amigo/amiga, who is sinless or not only Allah knows. As for your claim the answer is in your Bible for you. Also it depends what each one consider as sin. According to your Bible: Luke 6:37 "...condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned.."meaning condemning is a sin, if you condemn someone, you will be condemned, that's what this quote is saying. Now according to the same Bible Jesus negate that command by cursing a tree that did not have any figs for him to eat while he was hungry, and let me quote your source: Matthew 21:19 " And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away." Even many of us in these times can do better than what Jesus of that time is quoted could not (restrain himself when hungry). These two quotes prove that your claim is not true according to the Bible. Hasan

Greetings Hasan,

What a surprise. Long time no see.  I hope you are doing well, and I'm pleased to hear you call me friend. 

Regarding Matthew 21:19,
It is a rather strange story... a strange thing for Yshwe to do...
I think it is only meant to show that Yshwe had the power of God.

God's blessings to you,
Caringheart