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The Saint wrote: I have an interesting quote from the Bible here: �If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters�yes, even their own life�such a person cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:25-26). If we are to believe the usual argument that the bible is a truthful documentation of Jesus' life and moral values, the quote I've provided and many many others reflect blatantly skewed morality and contempt for one's fellow man. A person who facilitates this, let alone practices it, is truly sinful. You obviously did not read what I wrote yesterday. That this life is a test. Therefore, man is born with the propensity to do both good and evil. He is also given free will to choose between doing good or evil. Starting with Adam all prophets upto Muhammad PBUH were sent to teach and guide mankind as per the will of Allah Almighty. So, Jesus did not come with a unique mission. In fact, he was sent only to instruct the erring Jews. But he replied, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel." So, he was not even a universal saviour in his own words. Truly all prophets PBUTA were sent to specific nations, as was Jesus PBUH. Only Muhammad PBUH was sent as a mercy to all mankind and for all mankind.

Greetings The Saint,

Yshwe was sent to the lost sheep of Israel, and that is from whom His Disciples came, and once He had these disciples, who were familiar with all that had been taught to God's people prior to His coming(in other words they were Jews and of the Jewish faith), these were then instructed by Yshwe to go and teach all people.

 16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


It was necessary that the Disciples be chosen from among the Jews because it was they that had the prior Word of God and would be able to further God's kingdom by teaching it.

As regards Yshwe's strong words recorded in the book of Luke.
I have always taken this to be a forceful way of saying that no one must place anything higher in their esteem than God Himself... no one must love anything of this earth more than they love God Himself.  In loving God above all else we learn to accept His will.

He was saying that for someone to be His Disciple they must not love something else so much that it may interfere with their service to the Lord.  I think this is not much different than muslim thinking, in that they willingly let go of their family ties if they feel that service to allah requires it.

I understand what you are saying, that we all have this pull to do both bad and good.  I still see that we are born with a sin nature.  If we were not born with sin nature we would only have the pull to do good.
(I suppose the same can be said, if we were not born with a God nature then we would only have the pull to do evil... I think that there are some of these in the world.)

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart




Edited by Caringheart - 15 November 2014 at 12:58pm

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Edited by Muslim75 - 20 March 2015 at 2:11pm

Caringheart wrote: honeto wrote: Hola Amigo, I am well, Alhumdolillah. I think you missed the point my friend. It was not about the tree so much or what happened to it rather what Jesus did, cursed the tree. Did something against the command, sinned according to it. Hasan Greetings Hasan,I didn't miss your point.Only God has the power to curse.I think that is what was being illustrated in Matthew 21:19.asalaam and blessings,CH

hola,
so let me try to understand this. You are saying that God got hungry, wanted to eat figs, did not know if the tree has figs or not, upon getting closer to the tree, God realized all the figs are gone, so God got upset for not getting to eat, so God cursed the tree.
Is that so?
Hasan

So you agree to what I wrote above?
"You are saying that God got hungry, wanted to eat figs, did not know if the tree has figs or not, upon getting closer to the tree, God realized all the figs are gone, so God got upset for not getting to eat, so God cursed the tree.
Is that so?"

And let me assure you it is not hard for me to understand you, regardless of the fact that you make any sense of not, and that's not the issue. I just want you be clear what you are saying.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 15 November 2014 at 3:31pm