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kingskid View Drop Down
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Points: 125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingskid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2014 at 3:48pm
Hasan  wrote:

Kingskid,

Barbaric behavior among people has no boundaries of any sort. Look at the story of two sons of Adam, one killing the other. Look at the Mongols just in Persia they killed 90% of the population killing 2.25 million. Look at the almost exterminations of Native Americans by arriving Christians. Look at the enslavement of blacks by Christians in North America. Look at the killings of Jews by Hitler, a Christian. Look at the killings of hundred of thousands (possibly millions) and destruction of whole cities even countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and so on. There are two types of humans, good and bad and they are such regardless of color, race, religion or so on. Peoples acts are just that, we can and should blame only people for what they do, not their race, color or religion.
During Crusades atrocities committed by Christians were their acts, not their religion to be blamed.
There is no compulsion in religion according to the Quran.
Hasan

Greetings Hasan!  Of course atrocities have been committed by and upon all people from the beginning of Cain and Abel.  However, I am speaking of present-day rapes, kidnappings, and beheadings by those who call themselves Muslims.  Is the murder and mayhem they commit condoned by the Quran, by allah?
kingskid
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Points: 2991 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 December 2014 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:


Kingskid,
I appreciate your reply. You know after being exposed to people of all faiths, talking and learning from them I came to the most beautiful conclusion that all people of faith are sincerely following the same goal, to please their creator. We might be different in our ways in pursuing that goal and how we name and call our maker, but we are all after the same thing.
I think thus it is more important to have a good knowledge of each other's belief for harmony and tolerance first. It is after that knowledge and understanding that one is able to make a good decision for him/herself.

Thumbs%20Up

Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:


Barbaric behavior among people has no boundaries of any sort. Look at the story of two sons of Adam, one killing the other. Look at the Mongols just in Persia they killed 90% of the population killing 2.25 million. Look at the almost exterminations of Native Americans by arriving Christians. Look at the enslavement of blacks by Christians in North America. Look at the killings of Jews by Hitler, a Christian. Look at the killings of hundred of thousands (possibly millions) and destruction of whole cities even countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and so on. There are two types of humans, good and bad and they are such regardless of color, race, religion or so on. Peoples acts are just that, we can and should blame only people for what they do, not their race, color or religion.
During Crusades atrocities committed by Christians were their acts, not their religion to be blamed.
There is no compulsion in religion according to the Quran.
Hasan

lol - The rest of this is such a shameless, half-veiled attempt, to point the finger at Christianity, in spite of your wonderful, earlier statement.  Tongue

the enslavement of blacks.... who was doing the capturing and selling of the  blacks... the Africans themselves...
Hitler.... was NOT a Christian
Crusades were a response to aggression and oppression...

Peace to you friend,
Caringheart



Edited by Caringheart - 01 December 2014 at 4:56pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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The Saint View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:



Originally posted by The Saint The Saint wrote:

[QUOTE=Caringheart]

[QUOTE=The Saint] [QUOTE=Caringheart]Greetings The Saint,Here is a small sample, and with my thoughts.

2:6 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.2:7 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.no hope or chance for redemption -

You did not quote the context. Because the context explains why Allah is rigid in verse no 6.

2. This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear
Allah;
3. Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We
have provided for them;
4. And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and
[in their hearts] have the assurance of the Hereafter.
5. They are on [true] guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will
prosper.

The sixth verse is clear on what constitutes faith. Therefore, those and only those who do not believe even in the Taurat and the Injil even and who do not believe even in the hereafter must suffer the consequences.

2:10 In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. rather than lead away from the disease - 'allah increases the disease' so they may be condemend to a 'painful doom'

Again you are quoting without proper context. Tell me why should an all powerful God forgive such nasty, atheistic and rebellious people?

8. Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;"
but they do not [really> believe.
9. Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive
themselves, and realise [it> not!
10. In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And
grievous is the penalty they [incur>, because they are false [to themselves>.
11. When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why,
we only Want to make peace!"
12. Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise [it> not.
13. When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall
we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they
do not know.
14. When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are
alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We [were> only
jesting."
15. Allah will throw back their mockery on them, and give them rope in their
trespasses; so they will wander like blind ones [To and fro>.


2:17 Their likeness is as the likeness of one who kindleth fire, and when it sheddeth its light around him Allah taketh away their light and leaveth them in darkness, where they cannot see, why would allah 'take away the light' if he wished for man to be saved?

Same case. Read in context anyone would agree with the Lord.[/quote>Greetings The Saint,

<span id="en-KJV-30532">I didn't quote the whole context of the qur'anic verses because there was no need. � I did read and study the whole context before ever posting.

Context is not found in one place you have to look for it. Although in this case preceding verses usually explain why God Almighty is punishing people.

� It is clear, allah 'seals the hearing, the hearts, and the eyes'... that rather than try to remove the disease he 'increases the disease'... he 'takes away the light and leaves them in darkness'

Sure, He does. But only after allowing the transgressors rope. After giving them warnings and chances to reform.

Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle said, 'When Allah completed the creation, He wrote in His Book which is with Him on His Throne, 'My Mercy overpowers My Anger.' ' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Beginning of Creation, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 416)"

"Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from unbelief), their past would be forgiven for them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them). (The Noble Quran, 8:38)" God permitting repentance.

If you are grateful to Allah Almighty, then He'll give you more: "And remember! your Lord caused to be declared (publicly): 'If ye are grateful, I will add more (favours) unto you; But if ye show ingratitude, truly My punishment is terrible indeed.' (The Noble Quran, 14:7)" One just has to be grateful.


Caringheart</span>
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2014 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by kingskid kingskid wrote:

Hasan� wrote:Kingskid,
Barbaric behavior among people has no boundaries of any sort. Look
at the story of two sons of Adam, one killing the other. Look at the
Mongols just in Persia they killed 90% of the population killing 2.25
million. Look at the almost exterminations of Native Americans by
arriving Christians. Look at the enslavement of blacks by Christians in
North America. Look at the killings of Jews by Hitler, a Christian. Look
at the killings of hundred of thousands (possibly millions) and
destruction of whole cities even countries like Afghanistan, Iraq,
Libya, and so on. There are two types of humans, good and bad and they
are such regardless of color, race, religion or so on. Peoples acts are
just that, we can and should blame only people for what they do, not
their race, color or religion.
During Crusades atrocities committed by Christians were their acts, not their religion to be blamed.
There is no compulsion in religion according to the Quran.
Hasan
   Greetings Hasan!� Of course atrocities have been committed by and upon all people from the beginning of Cain and Abel.� However, I am speaking of present-day rapes, kidnappings, and beheadings by those who call themselves Muslims.� Is the murder and mayhem they commit condoned by the Quran, by allah?



Kingskid,
the Quran, as expected of any divine book teachs peace through justice.
Taking of a life is a grave sin in Islam. Even in the case of murder the victim's family who pardon and forgive the killer is given a higher degree in the sight of God. It is said in the Quran that if a person takes an innocent person's life it is as if he has killed the whole humanity. And the one who saves a life, it is as if he has saved the whole humanity.
Like in many other aspects of life the Quran sets a higher standard in respecting and preserving life.
What you are talking about, the barbaric acts committed by people claiming to be Muslims is really sad and every Muslim condemns them. We don't know who is behind them, those are result of political conflicts, much like 60s and 70s Latin America, no one knew back then who was behind those death squads, now we do. So decades from now the world will know who really is behind them, funding them, training them, and giving them instruction. Also when we return to our maker, He has promised to reveal truth behind things.
I would suggest you study the Quran, it will help you to get you answers for all your questions including this one that you asked.
Peace,
Hasan
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Points: 125 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingskid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 December 2014 at 11:01am
Originally posted by kingskid

Hasan  wrote:Kingskid,
Barbaric behavior among people has no boundaries of any sort. Look
at the story of two sons of Adam, one killing the other. Look at the
Mongols just in Persia they killed 90% of the population killing 2.25
million. Look at the almost exterminations of Native Americans by
arriving Christians. Look at the enslavement of blacks by Christians in
North America. Look at the killings of Jews by Hitler, a Christian. Look
at the killings of hundred of thousands (possibly millions) and
destruction of whole cities even countries like Afghanistan, Iraq,
Libya, and so on. There are two types of humans, good and bad and they
are such regardless of color, race, religion or so on. Peoples acts are
just that, we can and should blame only people for what they do, not
their race, color or religion.
During Crusades atrocities committed by Christians were their acts, not their religion to be blamed.
There is no compulsion in religion according to the Quran.
Hasan
   Greetings Hasan!  Of course atrocities have been committed by and upon all people from the beginning of Cain and Abel.  However, I am speaking of present-day rapes, kidnappings, and beheadings by those who call themselves Muslims.  Is the murder and mayhem they commit condoned by the Quran, by allah?



Kingskid,
the Quran, as expected of any divine book teachs peace through justice.
Taking of a life is a grave sin in Islam. Even in the case of murder the victim's family who pardon and forgive the killer is given a higher degree in the sight of God. It is said in the Quran that if a person takes an innocent person's life it is as if he has killed the whole humanity. And the one who saves a life, it is as if he has saved the whole humanity.
Like in many other aspects of life the Quran sets a higher standard in respecting and preserving life.
What you are talking about, the barbaric acts committed by people claiming to be Muslims is really sad and every Muslim condemns them. We don't know who is behind them, those are result of political conflicts, much like 60s and 70s Latin America, no one knew back then who was behind those death squads, now we do. So decades from now the world will know who really is behind them, funding them, training them, and giving them instruction. Also when we return to our maker, He has promised to reveal truth behind things.
I would suggest you study the Quran, it will help you to get you answers for all your questions including this one that you asked.
Peace,
Hasan
-------------
Thank you, Hasan, for your reply, and peace and blessings to you.  The Quran also speaks of war and killing of infidels, does it not?  All of these present-day Muslim murderers are self-defined.  They call themselves Muslims.  Whether they go by the title of ISIS, ISIL, IS, Boko Haram or something else, what these crazed killers have in common is Islam.  Could they not point to one of the 109 war verses in the Quran to justify the beheadings?  Could they not point to Muhammad's taking of sex slaves for his warriors as justification for the kidnappings and rapes the Muslim terrorists are committing today in allah's name?  One can only conclude, Hasan, that the world knows who is behind all the indescribable terror being committed by Muslims all over the earth--Islam.
kingskid
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------------------------------------------



Edited by Muslim75 - 06 January 2015 at 1:21pm
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Dear friend,

you know what else these groups have in common, their backers, and you can trace them back to the West. Much like those Latin American death squads of the cold war era. These groups get their funding structuring and activity guided and supervised right here in our intelligence headquarters. The reason I am so sure about what I am saying is because I have seen the CIA creating helping it function, provide funding, weapons and more to achieve it's objectives to one of earlier such groups, the tali bans. I grew up in that time less than a hundred miles of the conflict zone. Back then there was nothing like what we have. It was as peaceful as it can be anywhere. What it proved for me is that the West used these people for their own purpose, they used, still use them for their own purpose.
No decent Muslim want to hurt any other person, unless he is paid to do so in gold and silver after he has been deprived of all his humanity in Masrassahs, set up and paid for by the West.
AS far as your claim that Quran says to kill the infidals, you need to read those verses complete in context. I am ready to help bring those reference and we will go over.
Also would you be interested in comparing " bad stuff" of the Bible to that of the Quran?
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 11 December 2014 at 2:36pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 December 2014 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:





Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Kingskid,
I appreciate your reply. You know after being exposed to people of all faiths, talking and learning from them I came to the most beautiful conclusion that all people of faith are sincerely following the same goal, to please their creator. We might be different in our ways in pursuing that goal and how we name and call our maker, but we are all after the same thing.
I think thus it is more important to have a good knowledge of each other's belief for harmony and tolerance first. It is after that knowledge and understanding that one is able to make a good decision for him/herself.
[IMG]smileys/smiley20.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Thumbs%20Up" />


Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Barbaric behavior among people has no boundaries of any sort. Look at the story of two sons of Adam, one killing the other. Look at the Mongols just in Persia they killed 90% of the population killing 2.25 million. Look at the almost exterminations of Native Americans by arriving Christians. Look at the enslavement of blacks by Christians in North America. Look at the killings of Jews by Hitler, a Christian. Look at the killings of hundred of thousands (possibly millions) and destruction of whole cities even countries like Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and so on. There are two types of humans, good and bad and they are such regardless of color, race, religion or so on. Peoples acts are just that, we can and should blame only people for what they do, not their race, color or religion.
During Crusades atrocities committed by Christians were their acts, not their religion to be blamed.
There is no compulsion in religion according to the Quran.
Hasan
lol - The rest of this is such a shameless, half-veiled attempt, to point the finger at Christianity, in spite of your wonderful, earlier statement.� [IMG]smileys/smiley17.gif" align="absmiddle" alt="Tongue" /> the enslavement of blacks.... who was doing the capturing and selling of the� blacks... the Africans themselves...Hitler.... was NOT a ChristianCrusades were a response to aggression and oppression...Peace to you friend,Caringheart




Amigo,
sorry you did not like part of my answer, good that you liked some of it though.
Facts are are facts, shameful, yes. But what I wrote are facts too, this time showing that those who bear the name Christians were behind these acts. And my purpose was only to prove a point that people will be people. It is in human nature for some to overstep and exceed the limits. And all have done it, pointing finger at others don't mean that the one pointing is sinless.
I am not sure which books you have read about slavery in America, Hitler's faith, and the crusades that you can share the reference with me. Otherwise a little research on the net might help expose some facts to you.
Hasan
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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