The Original Sin

�Islam is a religion of success. Unlike Christianity, which has as its main image, in the west at least, a man dying in a devastating, disgraceful, helpless death� Mohammed was not an apparent failure. He was a dazzling success, politically as well as spiritually, and Islam went from strength to strength to strength.� � Karen Armstrong

The Saint wrote: �Islam is a religion of success. Unlike Christianity, which has as its main image, in the west at least, a man dying in a devastating, disgraceful, helpless death� Mohammed was not an apparent failure. He was a dazzling success, politically as well as spiritually, and Islam went from strength to strength to strength.� � Karen Armstrong

Greetings The Saint,

I read Karen Armstrong's book on islam.

Reading this today put me in mind of the scripture;

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
King James Version (KJV)


God does not choose the powers of men to show His glory,
but rather the meekest of men.
Attaining power and glory for self in this world, is not the power and glory of God.

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 09 May 2015 at 7:13pm

The Saint wrote: Almost 25% of the planet's population says yes to Muhammad. A few percentage points more are christians. But how many christians are practicing and how many follow the teachings of Jesus PBUH? What will in-the-name only christians offer?

You are absolutely correct on this.
I believe muslims have what it takes to make the best Christians.
A great number of Christians have lost their way, or have fallen away from obedience to the Word, or have quit their faith altogether...
but muslims do not have the Truth, and follow in disciplined ways, but after a wrong god and half-truths.... given just enough of the Truth, to make of them, believers in a false god... a deceiver.
This is how I see it.
I do not want to see so many good and innocent muslims led down a path to destruction because they have been tricked by the deceiver.
I think most muslims do not know what their qur'an says...
I think their ancestors 'became muslims', adopted a way of life, in order to survive, becoming slaves to their masters, forgetting after a few generations, any other way of life.

See, the thing is I don't believe we can say, 'Christians this', or 'muslims that', or 'Jews that', etc.  I believe God knows those that are His... those that follow in His ways... those that follow in the way of Yshwe.  I think it is extremely important that as humans we use our God-given discernment to see what is good and what is evil, and that is a thing determined in each individual.

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 09 May 2015 at 7:47pm

The Saint wrote: �Islam is a religion of success. Unlike Christianity, which has as its main image, in the west at least, a man dying in a devastating, disgraceful, helpless death� Mohammed was not an apparent failure. He was a dazzling success, politically as well as spiritually, and Islam went from strength to strength to strength.� � Karen Armstrong

For a short while; but if you read this quote in context, you will realize that Armstrong intended the exact opposite of what the shortened version implies:

ARMSTRONG: At the beginning of the twentieth century, every single leading Muslim intellectual was in love with the west, and wanted their countries to look just like Britain and France. Some of them even said that the Europeans, they didn't know about America yet, that the Europeans, uh, were better Muslims than they themselves, because their modern society had enabled them to create a fairer and more just distribution of wealth, than was possible in their pre-modern climates, and that accorded more perfectly with the vision of the Quran.

Then there was the experience of colonialism under Britain and France, experiences like Suez, the Iranian revolution, Israel, and some people, not all by any means, uh, some people have allowed this ... these series of disasters to corrode into hatred. Islam is a religion of success. Unlike Christianity, which has as its main image, in the west at least, a man dying in a devastating, disgraceful, helpless death.

MOYERS: On a cross, crucified.

ARMSTRONG: The cross, crucified, and that turned into victory. Mohammed was not an apparent failure. He was a dazzling success, politically as well as spiritually, and Islam went from strength to strength to strength. But against the West, it's been able to make no headway, and this is as disturbing for Muslims as the discoveries of Darwin have been to some Christians. The Quran says that if you live according to the Quranic ideal, implementing justice in your society, then your society will prosper, because this is the way human beings are supposed to live. But whatever they do, they cannot seem to get Muslim history back on track, and this has led some, and only a minority, it must be said, to desperate conclusions.

In short, Armstrong's real message is not that Islam is a success, but rather that it has failed; and that failure is the cause of Muslim extremism.

Edited by Ron Webb - 10 May 2015 at 9:39am