Anti-science madness

AhmadJoyia wrote: If I throw some light on what bro Abu is trying to say here about science, though I don't subscribe his opinions, when I came across a document where it is admitted that Quantum Mechanics is unique in the intellectual history of the world, because (i)It has no known limits to its validity (ii)Fundamentally, we do not understand it at all! . Interestingly, he posted a philosophical problem in the very end that just want to share here as Some have thrown up their hands and said that Plato got it right all along--that when it comes to understanding physical reality-- we are all in the cave... Ok, while the 2nd observation is self-explanatory, however, is there anyone who can explain us about the 1st observation? Here is the link, in case someone needs it. Is this, any longer, good enough?

Having done physics to the point where my maths ability gave out. And I droped out of university. I might be one of the best people to act as a guide to all this in that I know with an extremely high confidence that I do not know very much about it but can see the basics of it and it's very weird.

This is my basic guide;

Isaac Newton started physics. Newtonian physics is very straight forward. It's how we work out where an artillery shell will land and all the rest of engineering. All aircraft and power stations are done using just this simple (well simple-ish) model of the universe.

Then along comes stuff smaller than the atom;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVxBdMxgVX0

Decent video. Fun to watch although don't expect manny holywood killings.

Other probelms with the basic physics of Newton kept poping up like the orbit of Mercury being wrong.

Einstein comes along and explains that whilst the laws of Newton are right, acceleration is proportional to mass and force on that mass, acceleration is a function of time.

It turns out that time is not constant. To me this is a mindblowing idea.

Have a look at the video. If you have not watched several such things and thought about them before you will not get most of it but when you have watched lots of them and generally talked to people about it all some of it starts to be understandable-ish. It's still all very weird.

Have fun. Come back and talk about it all.

Thanks for inserting some other Islamic voice that is not mad.

Tim the plumber wrote: Yes Ron. That is exactly how I see it. It is the opposite of the British habit of being very self critical. We constantly moan about the UK and our selves. I think we do this with the objective of improving it situation. It will not change if we don't point out it's failings. I suppose if you have the position of saying that perfection has already been arrived at then any critisim is going to be threatening.

It's not just a British habit. It's one of the key elements of Western thinking, which liberal Muslims have adopted as well. Almost all Muslims posting on Islamicity have a conservative or even non-violent fundamentalist view of Islam. The reason for the Islamic Golden Age was liberal Muslims dominating over conservative Muslims. Self criticism was encouraged at the time. Alhazen promoted the scientific method. In 1250 CE this ended with fundamentalist Muslims taking control. To this day liberal Islam has never recovered from this blow. Since 1979 the situation has gotten even worse. Abu Loren and others are victims of Saudi Wahhabist propaganda flooding the entire planet.


Edited by Matt Browne - 24 January 2016 at 7:10am

AhmadJoyia wrote: Quantum Mechanics is unique in the intellectual history of the world, because (i)It has no known limits to its validity (ii)Fundamentally, we do not understand it at all!

That seems pretty fair.
"Phlogiston theory" actually works, for a very limited range of circumstances.
Newtonian mechanics works very well, within a framework limited by size and speed.
(Go too small or too fast, and the shortcomings appear.)

As far as is yet known there are no "limitation clauses" which affect quantum phenomena.

Some have thrown up their hands and said that Plato got it right all along--that when it comes to understanding physical reality-- we are all in the cave...

Yes, the problem of obtaining *direct* measurements and *direct* observations is still valid, but there is this big difference. We in many cases *can make the shadows move as we direct.*
What things actually are when I pick up a pen, or cause two things to stick together due to static electricity, those mysteries we have not plumbed, not right to the bottom. But our low-level or approximate knowledge is good enough to make the cave's shadows dance to our tune, which strongly suggests that our partial knowledge is on the right track on the way to perfect knowledge, if that can ever be attained.

Understanding? That may be impossible, even if we do succeed in working with what we don't understand.
As young child I had true knowledge that if a certain button was pressed on a torch, light would appear. More I did not know, then. The difference between true but only working knowledge, and deeper understanding.
Later I learned about batteries.
Later I learned about the chemistry of (some!) batteries.
Later I learned a bit about hoe atomic structure makes chemistry work...
But what is atomic structure?
Still levels of understanding to go before "I understand" is full, and we haven't hit bottom yet.

And this far removed from day-to-day commonsense experience (at the human scale) analogies and picture-language really starts to fail. The good language left is mathematics, and almost that alone, and this starts to go deeper than I can follow.
That doesn't mean I don't understand how to use a torch.






Edited by Emettman - 24 January 2016 at 10:14am

airmano wrote: AbuL: I can't guide you or anyone to God, only He can. He's doing a bad job in this respect. One could almost take it as proof that he is not omnipotent. Airmano

An article that may find your interest where the author concludes ...Thus it seems Einstein was doubly wrong when he said, God does not play dice. Not only does God definitely play dice, but He sometimes confuses us by throwing them where they can't be seen....