The Original Sin

I can see why you might think that... but God also said to Ishmael...

I am quoting from your earlier post because of which you have stated the following because I had found it most curious'referring to his descendants as being 'as numerous as the stars of heaven', to my mind, is poetic language.'

Because I said, Poetic language? Really? This sentence alone, actually, proves who the real descendants of Abraham really are! Their sheer numbers speak for the Muslims.

20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

22 And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
Is it any wonder they have been fighting for generations, and still can not seem to leave off fighting?

The descendants of Abraham are indeed numerous.... read the account in Genesis, chapters 15, 22, and 26.... they are the Jews and the Ishmaelites (whoever they are... the arabs?)

They are brothers, and yet they fight one another all these generations later. Why?
... maybe God wanted us to learn...
to settle our own disputes...
to love one another, all people, as brothers...
That is, after all, what Yshwe (the new covenant) came to teach...
and I give unto you another commandment....

I am quoting from your earlier post because of which you have stated the following because I had found it most curious'referring to his descendants as being 'as numerous as the stars of heaven', to my mind, is poetic language.'

Just to focus on the perspective, Because I said, Poetic language? Really? This sentence alone, actually, proves who the real descendants of Abraham really are! Their sheer numbers speak for the Muslims.

Where is the love then? Why is Israel persecuting the Palestinians for the last sixty years?

You have quoted a few verses to show that Isaac was the chosen son when it was really Ishmael.

An interesting thought arises, is it possible that the writer(s) of this book (Genesis) inserted such statements to favor his own clan, himself being an Israelite? When these two verses (Gen 17:21 and 21:12) are examined in context with other verses of this same book, it becomes obvious that the Ishmaelite were included in God's promise and his covenant with Abraham. God's covenant with Abraham was made before he had any children (Gen 12:2-3). It was reiterated after the birth of Ishmael and before the birth of Isaac (Gen 17:4). Moreover, Ishmael is also specifically blessed, and, hence, included in God's promise. For example, God stated:

Genesis 21:13) Of the son of the maidservant (i.e. Ishmael) I will make a great nation because he is thy seed.

The above promise was further confirmed a few verses later:

            (Genesis 21:18) Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in your hand; for I will make him a great nation.

            (Genesis 21:20) God was with the boy as he grew up.

When God speaks of greatness, he does not merely refer to numbers. Greatness by God's own criterion is founded on faith, spiritual heritage and religious leadership. One may wonder at this point why there should be only one child as the heir of the divine promise? Why not both sons in view of the evidence discussed already? What type of divine justice punishes the rites of the firstborn to satisfy Sarah's ego and bless her jealously? Was Sarah dictating her desires to God, too?

There is so much more I can say on this subject, yet. But I feel the above shall suffice for now.

... then Muhammad comes along, taking things backward, undoing... ignoring the message of Yshwe Messiah (the Christ, the Savior)... Who was leading Muhammad... the Creator, or the destroyer?

As Muslims we firmly believe that Muhammad PBUH is the true successor of Jesus PBUH.

The proof is in the Quran. Jesus PBUH is glorified in it as was prophesied by him. He is mentioned at least 25 times in the Quran. And his mother is glorified above all women of the human race! Ask yourself why?

The Word of Yshwe Himself (recorded in the book of Matthew, chapter 28)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


I assume you did not read a word from my post.

Let me give a few choice quotes from there_

3. None of the Apostles of the New Testament ever baptized in the name of the Trinity; rather, they baptized only in the name of Jesus Christ

This proves that none of the Apostles knew or ever heard of the triune formula.

You may see, for instance, Acts 2:38; 10:48; 8:5, 12, 16; 19:3, 5; Galatians 3:27; 1 Corinthians 1:13, 15; Romans 6:3.

4. Early Christians, such as scholars and historians (up to 350 years after Jesus� departure), gave a different text than what we have today whenever they quoted Matthew 28:19 in their writings

For example, when the Christian Historian Eusebius of Caesarea (a.k.a. Eusebius Pamphili) (c. AD 263 � 339), who�s called "Father of Church History," quoted Matthew 28:19 in his famous Ecclesiastical History, there was no triune formula in the verse.

The verse read:

Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in my name, teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I commanded you

1. The same incident was recorded in the Gospel of Mark; however, the one in Mark does not contain the triune formula at all

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Mark 16:15)

Greetings The Saint,

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said to me, On whom you shall see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizes with the Holy Ghost.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but you shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but you shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

So, I see you seem to be accepting the fact that Jesus PBUH never used the triune formula!

[A question re-surfaces for me once again, this morning.
Why is it that muslims are so intent and spend so much time seeking ways to speak against the Christian scriptures, and so very little in studying the qur'an? Why do so few seem able to share what is from the qur'an?

How much do they study their qur'an to see what there is in it?]

Your question is not entirely correct or true.

Firstly, Muslims, you should know do study the Quran first before they start talking to jews and christians. And it is only because they know their scripture so well that they are able to see the errors in christianity. Because as you know, the Quran is, among many other things, also a Furqan, the standard for all that is true and good.

Muslims also believe that if they keep telling the world that my Quran says so, my Quran says so, the non-Muslim will turn around and say but my Bible says so and so.

That is the strongest reason why they try to convince the christians of their errors by quoting their won scriptures.

However, if you wish to test the Muslims knowledge of the Quran you are welcome to ask questions.

So I am understanding that the scripture of Matthew 28:19 expounded, or embellished, the words of Yshwe,
but there is no denying that Yshwe always spoke of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and that He always spoke of these 3 in connection with Himself, and with God the Father.

How can you make that claim? On what grounds? Particularly after I have posted specific verses which deny this claim?

I am quoting Mark which is different from Mathew and without the triune formula.

The same incident was recorded in the Gospel of Mark; however, the one in Mark does not contain the triune formula at all

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Mark 16:15)

It seems to me that whoever was writing down the book of Matthew merely sought to bring all elements together and make it more clear.

Perhaps then, you would like to share with me why other gospel writers did not try to;'to bring all the elements together'? Mark clearly does not!

I offer this...
when John baptized Yshwe, who did he baptize in the name of? It must have been in the name of the Father (YHWH)
and when Yshwe was baptized the witness was of the Holy Spirit descending upon Him... and from where did the Holy Spirit come but from the Father to the Son? These 3 are One.
I know it is a thing hard for some to understand, but having read the book of Job I understand that it is not ours to understand all there is to understand about the Creator. It is a thing supernatural to us. Some things are out of our reach and simply must be accepted based on what we have been told from the scripture writings of the witnesses.

The answer is simple. All good spirits and all prophets come from God Almighty. Even Jesus PBUH was sent by Him. He clearly said so. 'Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him'.John 13:16

May I suggest to read Acts 8:5 all the way through to Acts 8:17.

5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
8 And there was great joy in that city.

9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of Elohim.
11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of YHWH, and the name of Yshwe Messiah, they were baptized, both men and women.

13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Still does not prove the triune formula! And see this verse, Galatians 3:27 English Standard Version (ESV)

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

And, Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 1 corinthians 1:3

And, Mark 9:37 King James Version (KJV)

37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.

And, John 14:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

So, clearly there is no trinity anywhere.

Greetings The Saint,
You dispute with the testimony of a great many witnesses... Romans, and others living in Jerusalem, who were witness to His death. The Roman soldiers that saw him laid to rest in a tomb and were told to guard it. Were these Roman guards told to stand guard over the tomb for nothing?

Ok, here is some evidence from the New Testament:

Luke 4:10-12
10 For the Scriptures say, �He will order his angels to protect and guard you.

11 And they will hold you up with their hands so you won�t even hurt your foot on a stone.��

12 Jesus responded, �The Scriptures also say, �You must not test the Lord your God.��

Matthew 4:5-10
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, Jerusalem, to the highest point of the Temple,
6 and said, �If you are the Son of God, jump off! For the Scriptures say, �He will order his angels to protect you. And they will hold you up with their hands so you won�t even hurt your foot on a stone.��
7 Jesus responded, �The Scriptures also say, �You must not test the Lord your God.��
8 Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
9 �I will give it all to you,� he said, �if you will kneel down and worship me.�
10 �Get out of here, Satan,� Jesus told him. �For the Scriptures say, �You must worship the Lord your God and serve only him.��

GOD Almighty will hear his cries (Psalm 91:15) and will save him (Psalm 91:3).

GOD Almighty will cover him with His Protection (Psalm 91:4).

Christ will then not have any fear in him (Psalm 91:5).

Christ will then observe with his own eyes the punishment of the crucified ones (Psalm 91:8).

No harm (this includes crucifixion!) or disaster will even come near Christ (Psalm 91:10....this even contradicts him getting beaten up before crucifixion).

GOD Almighty will send down the Angels to protect him and lift him (Psalm 91:11-12, 14, Isaiah 52:13). Not even his foot will strike the ground from his enemies pushing, grappling and punishment.

Christ's call will be HEARD, and he will be delivered and honored (Psalm 91:15, Isaiah 52:13). No way would these verses be valid if Christ got crucified.

There is much more that I can quote here to support my claim that Jesus PBUH was not crucified.

More soon.