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The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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Don't play the fool !
Presumably, you are not a fool and you do not play either, so why don't you reveal your wisdom here? |
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and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
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airmano
Senior Member Joined: 31 March 2014 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
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Let's look at two different versions of the Quran: Sanaa, Topkapi. (forgetting about the other ones that there are for the moment). Based on which logic/surah/hadith can you claim which of the two (or any other) is the "true" one ? Good luck: Airmano Edited by airmano - 20 August 2016 at 2:20am |
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The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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Based on which logic/surah/hadith can you claim which of the two (or any other) is the "true" one ?
You have been stressing yourself about such a simple issue! This question was actually answered hundreds of years back! The Uthmanic Mushaf, of course! |
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and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
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airmano
Senior Member Joined: 31 March 2014 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
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But this does not answer my question ! Let me rephrase it: What (or who) gave Uthman the authority to define his version as the only true on ? and None of the existing Qurans come from Uthman times. How do you know that the "official" (Cairo) version is 100% Uthmanic, especially knowing that all historical ones differ from each other ? Airmano Edited by airmano - 27 August 2016 at 3:23pm |
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The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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But this does not answer my question !
It should have. Let me rephrase it: What (or who) gave Uthman the authority to define his version as the only true on ? He had the authority by virtue of being a Khalifa. A companion of the Prophet PBUH. Absolutely the right man, in the right place to do the right thing. To remove all possible confusion as to what constituted the true and original Quran. None of the existing Qurans come from Uthman times. How do you know that the "official" (Cairo) version is 100% Uthmanic, especially knowing that all historical ones differ from each other ? Please note that the Arab society contemporary to the prophet was an oral one. Therefore, there was great emphasis in memorizing long texts and poems. Thus as the Quran was revealed to prophet Muhammad PBUH it was being written down on available materials and also being memorized by companions. Thus oral preservation continued down ages. The Quran was handed down to successors orally as well. Besides there was a system of Isnad developed by scholars. Any claim of a verse/s not included in the Uthmanic Mushaf was verified by the Mushaf itself and also what was the chain of the claim. |
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and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
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Tim the plumber
Senior Member Male Joined: 30 September 2014 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 944 |
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Why is "don't know" a problem and why does it mean your particular god is the right one? |
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airmano
Senior Member Joined: 31 March 2014 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
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Still I don't see what gave Uthman the authority. In case of Mohamed things look clear (to you): He got the authority from God. Since he was supposedly the last prophet, absolutely nobody - including Uthman- had the right to change or even decide on anything regarding the Quran. Describing Uthman as an important person doesn't take this conflict away. -----------------------------------------------------------------
...but this oral transmission did not prevent deviations to develop. Obviously the transmission was not perfect and already after a very short time after Mohamed the Sanaa scriptures showed deviations. I have absolutely no reasons to assume that this "evolution" has/had stopped with Uthman. Airmano Edited by airmano - 04 September 2016 at 2:25pm |
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The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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syed_z
Senior Member Joined: 16 February 2014 Status: Offline Points: 116 |
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Airmano,
Allah (swt) orders us to obey those in authority after Prophet Muhammad (sallAllahu Alaihi Wassallam): O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. (An Nisa 4:59) Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahu Alaihi Wassallam) said that the best generation was his, and then those after them and then those after them. He referred to the 3 as the best in Islam. �those in authority among you� mean the Scholars, the righteous rulers who Obey Allah (swt) and His Messenger. Uthman (r.a) was one of the rightly guided caliphs who was obedient to Allah and His Messenger. The Quran in circulation today is the same standard text published during his time. One more important point to mention is that Uthman (r.a) was not the first one to compile the standard text. Instead this text was already compiled at the time of Abu Bakr (r.a) who was the first Muslim Caliph and successor of the Prophet. He compiled this text and it was being kept with the wives of the Prophet. It was that same text that Uthman (r.a) used to publish and disseminate across the Muslim territory. Also he had appointed a council of many companions of the Prophet, who were memorizers of the Quran, under whose supervision this final authoritative and standard text was compiled. So it was not a one man show by Uthman (r.a). He made this decision according to the commandment in the Quran that Muslims should decide their matters after counseling among themselves. The words you are referring to, like the Sana�a Script that came to the fore very recently (2012), is a variant reading issue. The early Qurans did not contain vowels and dots for Arabs as they would read the Quranic letters without them but they were later added for the Non Arab Muslims for them to be able to read in a particular way. That however does not change the meaning of the words being said by Allah (swt), for example in an article about the Quran it says: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33631745 Reciters disagreed over whether verse 57 in sura 6 says God "tells" the truth (yaqussu) or "judges" truthfully (yaqdi), two words that look similar in the Arabic script. But since both ideas are ubiquitous in the Koran, the overall message of the scripture is not affected by either reading. From the above, it is evident that Muslims have lived with a measure of diversity within an otherwise largely stable and uniform text since the beginnings of Islam. Muslim theologies have assimilated this historical reality in various ways. While opposing opinions have always existed and persist today, the predominant view has been that the different versions and readings of the Koran that are traceable to early Islam all enjoy God's endorsement.
....so every now and then when an old copy of the few pages of a very old Quran dating back to the earliest times of Islam, the Prophet�s times, comes to the fore it is just a matter of variant reading, that contains meanings in addition to the ones in the standard text. Basically variant readings actually give even clearer meanings of some of the verses in Quran. It does not change the meaning of the Quran. It never has. Therefore deviation is not the correct word to say in this case. |
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