Maryga

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

O honourable, big and mighty Rami, why do you hide behind false pretences? Not one person agreed with what you had posted on the FGM thread. I worry about Islam being defiled by ignorant people like yourself and innocent and helpless females being harmed.

This isnt a way to behave in this month?

I dont need people to agree with me, i was quoting Islamic law of the Shafii madhhab they have the authority to state what is right and what is wrong for the people who follow the madhhab. this is by the consesus of all scholars of Islam not you or me, you have simply ignored what i said and restated your original position ignoring everything that is being said.

Do you know what a madhhab is and what role they play in Islamic law?

Your worry is baseless and unfounded you have not stated what is harmfull with female circumcision.

There was nothing untoward in what I had posted and you should have allowed people to judge. You saId "I deleted your post becouse a forum bug prevented me from moderating it." 

I don't believe it. I have not insulted any madhab rather it is your understanding. Here is what I had posted earlier

People are not responsible for moderating this forum, the topic was closed and therefore closed for discussion.

You dont believe me? why becouse the advantage of deleting your post over deleeting what you say and writing [moderator edited] is?

The following things were wrong with your post.

The earlier thread was closed without a solid reason

acusing a moderator of unethical behaviour while the forum guidlines clearly state that the mentioned behaviour will not be tolerated. read guidlines 1, 2, 3 and 10.

The only reason I see is because the only person Mr Rami who supports this practise did not have the capacity to reason with the other Muslims and non-Muslims who oppose this practise and who know for sure that it is not an Islamic practise.

Commenting on and insulting a moderator. Wrongfully claiming  something as being unislamic after clear evidence has been shown that a ruling does exist in Islam by major scholars on the matter and therfor misguiding muslims and non muslims in a section of the forum the sole purpose of which is to explain the islamic position to non muslims.

He states that there was abuse of the scholars, I have read so many threads on this forum where non-Muslims abuse the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) and yet the threads are allowed to continue.

Acusing the moderators and the Administrators of the forum of intentionaly alowing insulting comments to our prophet to remain and therfore bringing there Islam and Iman into question. This is slander in the least. Many people make an effort to report these posts as the moderators can not posibly read everypost these people can inform you as to how such posts are dealt with after they have been brought to the atention of the moderators.

On the FGM thread the only abuse I saw was Qaradwi was called a quack by Begbie who had initiated that thread. I don't see why we can't take such little criticism. But in my opinion this is just a cover.

This was in violation of the guidlines stated above, Why havnt you read the forum guidlines beffore posting, abiding by them is your responsibility? Here you have also acused a moderator of deceptive behaviour again based on mere suspicion something haram in islam. Slandering a scholar and slander in general is an enormity in islam, this is the Islamic standard.

The reason why that thread was closed is because the moderator Rami promotes this hideous practise be it FGC or FGM under the guise of the Shafi Madhab. 

Insulting the shafii madhhab. Where bigbie insulted one scholar you have managed to sideline and render the shafii madhhab irelavent a guise and an excuse. All this after i clearly stated that Imam Shafii the scholar after whom the school of thought is named held the legal opinion that the evidence for male circumsision  also aplied to females. I also gave you a link to sunnipath.com an islamic legal site giving opinions in the shafii as well as the Hanafi madhhabs clearly showing that this was a valid opnion of the shafii madhhab as well as stating that This is what the Hanafis considered an 'token' for the husband. So now you have two legal schools of thought stating the practice is not haram and accptable to practice in Islam.

Reliance of the traveler an islamic manual which summerises the legal rulings of Imam Nawawi one of the major mujtahid scholars in Islam and the shafii madhhab states,

e4.3 Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women removing the prepuce (Arabic, bazr) of the clitoris(n:not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert).(A:Hanbalis hold that circumsision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanfis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.)

A. is the comentry on this law by Sheikh Abd al Wakil Durubi
O. is an excerpt from the commentary of Sheikh Umar Barakat.

n. are comments by the author.

I am Hanafi, but i am not ashamed to state what is clearly a acceptable practice by Islamic standards, simply becouse some westerners have made some trumped up charges which are clearly ignorant of basic facts we should not be ashamed or embaressed to state what has been an islamic practice from the time of the prophet!

I also mentioned some legal principles/maxims which applied to this issue but i wont go into them.

I appeal to all the Muslims on this forum to openly condemn this practise which has never been sanctioned by Allah in the Quran, nor did the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) recommend this.........as clearly there is no justification whatsoever why this hideous practise should continue.

This is completely inaccurate, female circumcision like male circumcision predates islam and christianity, which means that it was practiced in the time of the prophet and something that is sunnah as there is nothing in the Quran and sunnah prohibiting it. Unless a clear prohibition exists in islam against this you can not even state it is haram that is for Allah alone.

another legal maxim states �The norm in regard to things
is that of permissibility� (Al-aslu fil-ashyaa� al-Ibahah). Permissibility in other words is the natural state and will therefore prevail until there is evidence to warrant a departure from that position. This maxim is based on a general reading of the relevant evidence in the Qur�an and Sunnah. Thus when we read in the Qur�an that God �has created all that is in the earth for your benefit� (2:29), and also the hadith that states: �whatever God has made halal is halal and whatever He has rendered as haram is haram, and all that over which He has remained silent is
forgiven�, the conclusion is drawn that we are allowed to utilise the resources of the earth for our benefit, and that unless something is specifically declared forbidden, it is presumed to be permissible.

You can find an explanation of what a legal Maxim is here and what they mean in islamic law.

When something is harmfull in islam it becomes haram for us, no one can even state what is harmfull with female circumcision, our scholars would not allow a practice to continue for 1400 years while it is harmfull  simply to uphold mere custom this is against islamic law.

Allah has also said that He has created us in the most perfect moulds and who are we to be meddling with His creation? Let Mr Rami or anyone who practises or supports this practise explain what is good about this and why it should not be stopped.

I have already proven your asertions to be incorect. There is no need to go into benefits as the discussion on female circumcision has been closed and any further comments in the near future will result in the person being banned.