Who is the comforter

Niblo wrote: As-Salāmu ‘alaykum, brother. As you know, Matthew 22:24 is taken from Psalm 110. In the Hebrew Bible this psalm contains two distinct words: יהוה (YHWH) and אֲדֹנִי (adoni). These do not have the same meaning. According to both Biblical and Modern Hebrew, the terms יהוה and אֲדֹנִי are neither connected nor related. The former is used only of God; while the latter is never used of God. In the Septuagint, these two - quite separate and distinct - Hebrew terms are represented by the same Greek term kύριος, and therefore the distinction is erased. You will know that Greek is an inflected language; this means that the form of certain words changes depending on how they are used in sentences. Have a look at the following examples from the Septuagint (I have placed the correct Greek words in their correct places): ‘Now Abraam and Sarra were old, advanced in days, and menstruation had ceased to happen to Sarra. And Sarra laughed within herself, saying, “It has not yet happened to me up to the present, and my lord (kύριος) is rather old.” And the Lord (kύριος) said to Abraam, “Why is it that Sarra laughed within herself, saying, ‘Shall I then indeed give birth? But I have grown old?’ (Gn 18:11-13). Here kύριος refers to both God and Abraham. ‘And Abigaia saw Dauid, and she hurried and alighted from the donkey and fell before Dauid on her face and did obeisance to him on the ground on his feet and said, “Upon me, my lord (kurie), be the injustice; do let your slave speak in your ears, and hear a word of your slave. Let not now my lord (kύριος) set his heart on this pestiferous person, for as his name is, so is he; Nabal is his name, and folly is with him, but I, your slave, did not see your lads whom you sent. And now, my lord (kurie), the Lord (kύριος) lives, and your life lives, since the Lord (kurios) restrained you from coming against innocent blood, and to save your hand for yourself, even now may your enemies and those who seek evil for my lord (kuriw) be like Nabal.’ (1 Sam. 25: 23-26). Here kύριος in its original form – and its forms kurie and kuriw – refer to David; while kύριος, and its form kurios, both refer to God. In the Tanakh, kύριος, and one or more of its forms, is also applied to others. For example: ‘Then the servant took ten camels from his lord’s (tou kuriou) camels and some of all his lord’s (tou kuriou) goods with himself, and when he had risen, he went to Mesopotamia to the city of Nachor.’ (Gn 24:10). Here a form of kύριος (kuriou) refers to a servant’s master. ‘But if the master (kύριος) gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and children shall be his master’s (ton kurion), but he shall go out single.’ (Ex.21:4). Here kύριος and another of its forms (kurion) refer to yet another ‘master’. ‘And Dauid said to him, “Whose are you, and where are you from?” And the Egyptian lad said, “I am a slave of an Amalekite man, and my master (kύριος) left me behind because I fell sick three days ago.’ (1 Sam. 30:13 20 Here kύριος refers to the slave’s master. Summary: When Psalm 110:1 was first written it was written in Hebrew - of course - and not in Greek; thus: מזמור נאם יהוה לאדני שב לימיני עד-אשית איביך הדם לרגליך. The unambiguous יהוה (YHWH) – used only of God; and equally unambiguous אדני (adoni) – never used of God; have been replaced – in the Septuagint – by kύριος and its related forms; words that are applied to both God and humans. Put another way: two words that never bear the same meaning – that are not connected or related in any way – have been replaced by one that is ambiguous in its usage. Christian translators and apologists have seized on this ambiguity in order to promote their theology.

Mualaikumsalam, brother.

Thanks for the further clarification and you are absolutely right to say "Christian translators and apologists have seized on this ambiguity in order to promote their theology".

Al Masihi wrote: Thomas also directly calls Jesus my God so we can tell it’s a refferenc to God.

Are you referring to John 20:28 ?? If you are, then, was Thomas calling Jesus God Almighty ? Or was he just making an exclamation, like most of us do when confronted with something shocking and not expected ?? As for Thomas calling Jesus “My Lord”, surely you know that Jesus was a respected rabbi and the Jews called their rabbi ‘Lord’. So, Thomas said ‘My Lord’ because Jesus was a respected rabbi and Thomas exclaimed ‘My God!’ because he came to the realization that Jesus was not killed nor crucified. Wouldn’t you too will exclaim ‘My God’ if a good friend you thought was killed in a car crash 3 days ago, appear at your front door very much alive ??

Al Masihi wrote: Jesus made himself subservient as an ordinary man when he came down to Earth. Jesus praying to the Father shows he’s subservient to the Father while on Earth.

Jesus is subservient to God Almighty because he was sent by God and submit himself only to the Will of God. Jesus himself clearly said so in your own gospels. So, why don’t you listen to him instead of listening to other people ??

Al Masihi wrote: Jesus also said all authority on heaven and on Earth is given to him meaning he could forgive sins.

The key phrase in this verse is “is given”, which simply means there is a higher power presiding over all mankind, including Jesus. So, how can Jesus be God Almighty when he had to receive ‘authority’ from a Higher Being than himself ??

Al Masihi wrote: Technically Adam and Eve were not married they are considered husband and wife because they are the only two humans created by God, incest and adultery weren’t considered immoral back then since when you think about it Adam and Eve’s children married each other although that would be considered incest today that was not so back then.

Well, if Adam was referred to as Eve’s husband in the Bible, then, technically speaking, they are married to one another, although perhaps, the solemnization of their marriage was not as elaborated as today’s marriage. Fact is - there’s no reason as to why the Bible would referred Adam as Eve’s husband other than the understanding that God do not condone sexual relationship before marriage.

As for “Adam and Eve’s children married each other”, well, that’s an exception as it’s the only possible way “to be fruitful and multiply” – there’s no one else they could marry other than their own brother or sister. You should also note the fact that the Bible, when speaking of a man and a woman relationship, always refers the man as the husband or the woman as a wife. This is clearly evidenced when referring to the relationship of Adam and Eve. Even Cain’s partner, who was believed to be his sister, was referred to as his wife – (Genesis 4:17). The message you can get from this is that God does not condone sexual relationship before marriage, even from the time the first man and woman were created and thus, Abraham’s relationship with Hagar was no different, that is, Sarah, who believed she could not bore Abraham any children, gave Hagar to Abraham as his wife – a fact which is written in your own scripture.

Al Masihi wrote: No adultery didn’t exist at the time of Abraham, by Islamic standards what Abraham did would not be considered adultery since Hagar was the concubine of Abraham, the Quran dictates that sexual relations are permissible with a concubine if a Muslim happens to own one see here for more information: https://islamqa.info/en/13737

‘Adultery’ is just a term, but the act of ‘adultery’ has long existed and God does not condone immoral activities such as adultery even though the law forbidding adultery came later with Moses. Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because its people practiced immoral activities such as homosexuality, rape, and so on, but was there any divine law on such immoral activities in those times ??

As for the link you provided, was there mentions of ‘concubines’ in the answer other than in the questions ?? Suggest you read that link carefully.

Al Masihi wrote: In Galatians 4:23 we see Ishmael being described as the son of the slave women while Isaac as the son of the free women. Ishmael was circumcised and was blessed by God however God says the real everlasting covenant will be established with Isaac not Ishmael. Jesus fulfilled the Old Law effectively completing it, however a circumcision of the heart of the Christian is taught.

As you should know, Galatians 4:23 are the words of Paul, not Jesus. So, who do you really follow and listen to – Jesus or Paul ??

Al Masihi wrote: You said Christians don’t know their scripture if that’s true then you should have no problem debating more experienced Christians then I.

As I said, it’s not like I have never been in Christian-moderated interfaith forums before and the Christians in those forums gave similar responses like any other Christians such as yourself. So, don’t underestimate yourself or the other Christian posters here. As far as I can tell, you are just as experienced and knowledgeable as any other Christians. However, if you believe the Christians in the Christian-moderated forum boards can give better explanations than you (or the other Christians here), no one is stopping you from inviting them over and engage themselves in any discussion in this forum. It’s always good to listen to other people's understanding of their respective beliefs and at the same time, perhaps, we can learn something new.

Thomas also directly calls Jesus my God so we can tell it’s a refferenc to God. Jesus made himself subservient as an ordinary man when he came down to Earth. Jesus praying to the Father shows he’s subservient to the Father while on Earth. Jesus also said all authority on heaven and on Earth is given to him meaning he could forgive sins. Technically Adam and Eve were not married they are considered husband and wife because they are the only two humans created by God, incest and adultery weren’t considered immoral back then since when you think about it Adam and Eve’s children married each other although that would be considered incest today that was not so back then. No adultery didn’t exist at the time of Abraham, by Islamic standards what Abraham did would not be considered adultery since Hagar was the concubine of Abraham, the Quran dictates that sexual relations are permissible with a concubine if a Muslim happens to own one see here for more information: https://islamqa.info/en/13737

In Galatians 4:23 we see Ishmael being described as the son of the slave women while Isaac as the son of the free women. Ishmael was circumcised and was blessed by God however God says the real everlasting covenant will be established with Isaac not Ishmael. Jesus fulfilled the Old Law effectively completing it, however a circumcision of the heart of the Christian is taught. You said Christians don’t know their scripture if that’s true then you should have no problem debating more experienced Christians then I.

The Greek word κύριος is used which is always used to reffer to Lord as God. You can’t change the fact Jesus forgave sin, Jesus is confounding the Pharisees' skepticism by posing to them whether it is easier (He being the Messiah) to forgive sin or heal a paraplegic. He is demonstrating His authority over spiritual healing and physical healing, he did that to demonstrate His authority. Healing people of their illness is very different from forgiving sins. Adultery did not exist at the time of Abraham, Moses brought the Ten Commandments which forbidded sexual relations with anyone other then your spouse. It was not adultery to conceive a child through your handmaiden, as it was common back then if the wife could not produce a son she would allow her husband to conceive a child through her. Sarah is reffered to as the wife of Abraham while Hagar isn’t so we do know she was his legal wife while Hagar was his handmaiden. God would make Ishmael a great nation because Abraham wanted him to be blessed and prayed for him, however God said the real heavenly covenant will go to Isaac not to Ishmael.

Genesis 17:15-22 God also said to Abraham, "As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call her Sarai; her name will be Sarah. I will bless her and will surely give you a son by her. I will bless her so that she will be the mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her." Abraham fell facedown; he laughed and said to himself, "Will a son be born to a man a hundred years old? Will Sarah bear a child at the age of ninety?" And Abraham said to God, "If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!" Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year." When he had finished speaking with Abraham, God went up from him.

Genesis 21:8-11 The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast. But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, and she said to Abraham, "Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac." The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son.


Genesis 21:13-21 I will make the son of the maidservant into a nation also, because he is your offspring." Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy. She went on her way and wandered in the desert of Beersheba. When the water in the skin was gone, she put the boy under one of the bushes. Then she went off and sat down nearby, about a bowshot away, for she thought, "I cannot watch the boy die." And as she sat there nearby, she began to sob. God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, "What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation."   Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink. God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt.

If Christians don’t know their scripture then would you join Christian forums to test that claim?