Who is the comforter

JerryMyers wrote: DavidC wrote: Kinda drifting away from Islam here. I would like to know why Jesus is so important to Islam. Why the Qu'ran says 8th Century Christianity was mistaken are secondary, comparative questions. I find lots of issues in the Nestorian and Ebionite Christianities of the Quraysh too. The Qu'ran singles out Jesus as a unique prophet viv-a-vis his role in the final judgment and the end of the world, as well as his connection in the long line of prophecy. Or is that from Bukhari? I get confused. The question for me is, "Why is Jesus an indispensible figure in Islam?". Islam does not distinguish between prophets as all known prophets of God are great in their own respective ways and they are all indispensable figures in Islam. They are like jigsaw pieces, without which, you would not be able to complete the final picture or see the final message. Jesus is unique and special because of his virgin birth, that is, he was created without any intervention of a man or in other words, he was born without a biological father. In Islam, Jesus’ virgin birth DOES NOT mean Jesus is literally THE Son of God and God is literally his biological Father, but it’s a testimony that we are witnesses to the Greatness of God in His Creations. Consider this - God created Adam without the involvement of man and woman, He created Eve without the involvement of a woman, He created Jesus without the involvement of a man and He created mankind with the involvement of both man and woman. Thus, Jesus was the final piece in the Greatness of God’s Creative Mind in the creation of man – man was created WITHOUT man and woman (Adam), WITHOUT woman (Eve), WITH man and woman (mankind) and finally WITHOUT man (Jesus). To say God literally had a Son or had fathered a Son is blasphemy as it equates God or compares God with the very nature of a man, when God Almighty is beyond comparison and had no equals (Isaiah 40:12-31).

JerryMyers wrote: DavidC wrote: Jerry, I assume you are a Muslim. Somehow I thought you were not, but you proclaim Islamic doctrine with authority. Maybe my error. I wish the site would go back to putting religious identification in the id panel. Yes, I am a Muslim, DavidC – a Muslim not by design but by personal choice. I assume you are a Christian by design, meaning, you are a Christian because you were born into a Christian family and thus, follows the faith of your parents - of course, I may be wrong on this. Majority of Muslims worldwide are Muslims by design too and thus, their thoughts, actions, etc, may not reflect the true overall fundamental teaching of Islam. Thus, it’s not surprising (at least, to me) that a research survey on 'the most Islamic-compliant countries in the world' are NOT from Muslim-majority countries - https://www.sabrangindia.in/article/new-zealand-luxemburg-ireland-most-truly-islamic%E2%80%99-countries-world

I quote your response here

Hi jp the unitarian,

Sin simply means to do something against the Command of God. If you decided to abide by the Commands of God, that’s a choice you made and similarly, if you choose to go against God’s Command, that’s a choice you made too. Therefore, sin is a choice you made too. When God created the first man, Adam, God gave man the faculty of intelligence and with that came the power to choose. When Adam decided to eat the forbidden fruit, he made that choice, altho’ he was fully aware God had forbidden him from eating that fruit. That choice became a sin because God had forbidden Adam to eat from that forbidden tree. If God had not forbidden Adam, then, the choice he made (to eat the fruit) would not be a sin. If Adam had not sin (that is, if God did not forbid him from eating the fruit), does it mean mankind too would not have sin ?? Obviously mankind will still sin by going against other Commands of God, irrespective whether Adam had sin or not. In other words, man sin NOT because the first man, Adam had sin (that is, disobey God), but man will sin because of , the choices (those which are against God’s Commands) man will and had made, and no man can redeem or die for another man’s sin as only God Almighty can forgive your sin. Like all the other prophets of God, Jesus fully understood this and that’s why he never preached original sin or said he came to literally die for mankind sin.

Hi Jerry

Well this is the point what I wanted to explain, but let's look at Adam and Eve, in the creation they had two choices

Gen 3:22 And יהוה Elohim said, “See, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...” (TS98)

Gen 2:17 but do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in the day that you eat of it you shall certainly die.” (TS98)

The choice between living forever or death, but not immediate death, but death by choices of good and evil. The choice made by Adam and Eve was the knowledge of good and evil, therefore death and since this choice was a sin it is a sin we all inherit when we are born, this is why we die, there was no death before the fall.

Gen 1:29 And Elohim said, “See, I have given you every plant that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed, TO YOU IT IS FOR FOOD. (TS98)

Gen 1:30 “And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens, and to every creeping creature on the earth, in which there is life, EVERY GREEN PLANT IS FOR FOOD.” And it came to be so. (TS98)

Animals as well as us humans were to eat only plants and fruits, there was no killing for food. No death, but Adam and Eve chose death instead of eternal life.

Would man have sinned if Adam and Eve would have chosen the tree of eternal life?

Of course not they would have been in perfect accord with the spirit and not able to sin, they would not have had children either, since in the spiritual condition they would have been like Angels, and Angels do not procreate.

Mark 12:25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. (ESV2011)

In other words Yehovah would have had to create others, but then this is not what Yehovah wanted, this would have been like making more Angels, so why Man? Why were we given a choice and not angels? Have you ever tried to understand this? It is great when you understand why we are different.

This is the salient point, because of the fall we can make choices but can never know the will of Allah (Yehovah) therefore we sin, since we can unknowingly make the wrong decision that is against his will. This is why there are two parts to the tent of meeting (temple that Moses built) the first part is to pay for intentional sin, these are sins we know about, the second part for sin we did not know about, unintentional sin or sins committed in ignorance.

Heb 9:7 But the high priest alone enters the second room, and he does that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offers for himself and for the sins of the people committed in ignorance. (HCSB)

And since we sin we can only cover for our own sin, but can never ever pay for the sin that causes death, the sin or choice of Adam.

You said in your response

and I quote "and no man can redeem or die for another man’s sin as only God Almighty can forgive your sin."

Mark 2:10 “But in order for you to know that the Son of Aḏam possesses authority on earth to forgive sins...” He said to the paralytic, (TS98)

Yeshua by his obedience to Yehovah, had authority given him by Yehovah to forgive sin on earth. There is another problem of misconception you are showing is that if a man cannot redeem in the case of sin, you would be saying that man is of less value than an animal since the blood of a lamb can redeem you. You would also be saying that all the animal sacrifices were of no use,, this would mean Yehovah was lying when he established the law of animal sacrifice for payment of sin, which is completely wrong, animal sacrifices were to atone for sin

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, (ESV2011)

Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. (ESV2011)

this is the gospel also know as the good news was that Yeshua had come to die for your sin, and yes Yeshua did preach it but in deep parables, since Yehovah did not permit him to disclose his mission, knowing that Yehovah commanded all his words, you should understand this.

John 12:47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. (ESV2011)

1John 4:9 God’s love was revealed among us in this way: God sent His One and Only Son into the world so that we might live through Him. (HCSB)

How exactly did Yeshua save the world? remember now if you call him a liar here you call Allah a liar.

How exactly do we live through a man, how is this done?

The whole problem is you are missing many parts of the Bible in your assessment, yet your own quran tells you that you must follow the Torah of the Hebrew Bible, now how can you follow the Torah, when you do not understand the Torah of sacrifice. Look above and see the problem you have, you have to understand this before you understand the Quran correctly, so let's go through it.

Man cannot atone for the sin of another yet animal sacrifices can? This is not an error, believe me neither is it a contradiction, I can tell you right now I understand the reasons why.

Al 'Imran 3:50. "´(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.

Look at the Quranic verse above Yeshua came to make LAWFUL what was FORBIDDEN, now how can Yeshua change the law of Allah? The answer is in the law of sacrifice when you understand it.

What was now made lawful was because of the sacrifice of Yeshua, by his obedience to the will of Yehovah he could never sin so when he offered himself up for death, he was innocent and had no sin to pay for, that means zero sins to pay for.

Yeshua entered the most holy part of the tent (the second part) and offered his own blood for our redemption. This is why you must understand the law and that there is a true tent in heaven. The tent Moses built was just an earthly copy, and why there two parts to the tent. We can only pay for sin in the first part of the tent with our own blood at death, but can never pay for unintentional sin in the second part of the tent therefore all sins which are unintentional, like the sin of Adam is for us, cannot be payed for, therefore we are stuck in death physical and spiritual.

When Yeshua died he had no sin accounted to him therefore did not have to pay for sin in the first part of the temple, so he went to the second part of the temple and payed for unintentional sin, by this payment he clears the debt owed by Adam for his sin, because he himself inherited this sin by his birth.

Heb 9:11 But Messiah, having become a High Priest of the coming good [matters], through the greater and more perfect Tent not made with hands, that is, not of this creation, (TS98)

Heb 9:12 entered into the Most Set-apart Place once for all, not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood, having obtained everlasting redemption. (TS98)

the most set apart place or most holy place is the second part of the tent Where Allah resides. This is how he payed for our sin of Adam by paying for unintentional sin he clears us of the sin of our wrong choices which is unintentional sin and now all we have to do is to be good people, and Fear Allah.

This is also how he is given such a great and high position, by his obedience he is seated at the right hand of Allah, he is the firstborn from the dead, the first one resurrected as we will be. Know and understand the resurrection, which is also in the Quran.

Acts 17:31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.” (ESV2011)

Al nisa 4:159. And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death;(665) and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-

Yehovah (Allah) will judge the world by a man whom he has appointed. Don't those two verses sound the same,Yeshua being a witness will be part of the judgment.

Look also at what Allah says those who follow Yeshua superior to those who reject faith, faith in who here? This should be faith In Yeshua and what he came to do, by the means of Allah of course.

Al imran 3:55. Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods)of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

Al 'Imran 3:3 It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).

The gospel is the good news, it is according to the Quran the criterion for right and wrong now you have to follow the gospel of Yeshua to understand the Quran, since it is the Gospel that is the criterion. Also it is the gospel that interprets the Torah (the book so often mentioned in the Quran) which you are commanded to follow.

Al imran 3:7 He it is Who has sent down to thee THE BOOK: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

The Bible is hard to understand, but once you start treating it as a book of truth it all adds up and this is in the Quran. The validity of the Quran is through the Bible, the book sent down by Yehovah (Allah), no Bible and the Quran in invalid.

2Acts wrote: You have not even addressed let alone refuted any of the points I made! Why ? Because you cant! So what was Jesus saying ? Oh yes I see now, he said ... "there is no god but God and Mohammad is the messenger of God." How silly of me ! How could I not see it ! Not ! Take your Muslim sun glasses off and read the Bible without the influence of your Mullahs and you may learn something.

On the contrary, I have refuted ALL your points, BUT, we all know you cannot even understand your own scripture so how could you understand my refutations of your ‘points’ ??

And yes, that’s very silly of you as how could Jesus have said Muhammad is the Messenger of God when he was long gone before Muhammad was even born ??!! So much for your ‘rule of HISTORICAL BACKGROUND’ as a criteria to understand the Bible !! See what I mean when I said you cannot even understand your own scripture let alone to understand my refutations of your ‘points’?? I guess that's why you keep on ‘parroting’ that I have not addressed or refuted your ‘points’.

Nevertheless, Jesus did say “The Lord, your God, the Lord is ONE” meaning there is no god BUT only ONE God Almighty. So, yes, he did say “there’s no god BUT God”. Surely, that's not difficult to understand even for someone like you, or is it ??

So, heed your own advice, take your Christian sun glasses off and read the Bible without the influence of your so-called preachers and scholars (who listen to other people’s words, not Jesus) and you may learn something.