Is Islam true?

AhmadJoyia wrote: Bro Fredi, if you look closely, I have already argued against all of such views, especially the one presented in the referred webpage, as mere opinons without evidence. How can anyone understand how did they arrive at as what they opioned? Moreover, I have not rejected any of the sunnah or ahadith out of my own whims but not considered them following a well established methodology of superiority of Quran over all others. Only in the absence of evidence from Quran, shall require to look upon any other sources, ahadith or no ahadith is not an issue over here.

ahmad, i dont know why i should have to be looking closely, arguments generally leap out the page at one.  but this much i have ascertained - you dont think apostates should be executed, right?  that being the case, what do you think should happen to them, and why?  are you now saying you actually reject some of the sunnah/ahadith?  (is ahadith the plural of hadith?)  if you are rejecting some of it, then surely you must question/reject all of it?  --i mean, ahmad, we cannot just waltz through life picking and choosing whatever takes our wee fancy, now can we?  now i mean you are rejecting the testimony of a lot of people, i cannot remember them all, but the names abu bakr, who commissioned the first (?) codex of the quran, and aisha spring to mind, who stated clearly that apostates must be killed.  thats pretty heavy testimony youre speaking against here.  (she was a pretty smart girl, that aisha, she put them all right on a few issues, as i recall).   ------its time to open up, ahmad, and tell us the full truth about apostasy in islam, in all its details....   or is all you have to offer "another opinion"?

 what of the books of jurisprudence?  it seems to me you reject them completely (how can you accept the validity of books which clearly call for the killing of people who should not be killed?)----it would seem you are a "quran only" muslim, (i say quran only in the sense of whats left of it) in which case by what law will islam one day "rule the world" in view of the last 2 paragraphs i quoted from mawdudi?

here they are again, (the emphases are from me):

Some people, after hearing these discourses from the Hadith and the Law, keep on asking: Where is the punishment written in the Qur'an? Even though we have demonstrated the presence of this order also in the Qur'an in the beginning of our discussion, yet, for the satisfaction of these people, let us suppose the commandment is not found in the Qur'an. Still the large number of Hadith, the decisions of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs and the united opinions of the lawyers suffice fully to establish this commandment.

We ask those who deem this evidence insufficient and request some Quranic reference to prove the existence of this commandment: In your opinion is the full Islamic penal code the same as that which is found in the Qur'an? If your answer is in the affirmative, it is as if you are saying that apart from those actions which the Qur'an designates as criminal and for which a penalty is prescribed, no other action will be punishable as a crime. Then consider this matter again. Can you run any government in the world successfully even for one day on this principle? If you answer in the negative and you yourself also admit that an Islamic order of government must reckon with other crimes also besides those crimes and their punishment mentioned in the Qur'an and the need for a detailed penal code relative to them, then we ask a second question. Which law will be more worthy to be called Muslim: The law which was in use during the rule of the Prophet and the four Rightly-Guided Caliphs and which was accepted with full agreement and without break for thirteen hundred years by the whole Muslim community's judges, magistrates and legal scholars   or   the law formulated at present by some persons who have been influenced and overcome by non-Islamic studies and non-Islamic culture and civilization and who have not obtained even a partial education in Islamic discipline"

ahmad - still not clear, are you saying that a muslim whose apostasy takes the form of desertion should be executed, but a muslim who simply declares that islam is rubbish should not be executed?

there is also the wider question, namely, how can islam be the all- encompassing code for everything if you base it only on the quran?

what is cair?

Bro if you know the difference between desertion and apostasy then Yes when you say "...are you saying that a muslim whose apostasy takes the form of desertion should be executed, but a muslim who simply declares that islam is rubbish should not be executed? "

CAIR is The Coucil on American-Islamic Relations and here is the direct link to their article posted by one of the brother on this thread requesting your attention specifically.

http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id= 2066&theType=NR

Melco, take it from me, one can say practically anything on this board, but with a single proviso: it must be said with the utmost diplomacy and tact.  These are good things to practice, at any rate, as it is said somewhere in the scriptures (I think) that one is made an �Ambassador� for Christ.

Anyway, I have enjoyed your contributions and you still have the record, so far as I know, for having started the most active thread on IC.

Best regards,

Serv